There is a specific best Attack/Defense decks for each alignment. These set ups are based on 4-6 Evolutions.
SR Demon Attack Deck:
Leader: Hecate - 20K attack - Great Boost to Demons Attack
Second: Jabberwock - 20.2K attack - Great Boost to Gods/Demons Attack
Third: Jabberwock - 20.2K attack - Great Boost to Gods/Demons Attack
Fourth: Sutekh - 20.8k attack - Great Hit to Defense (All)
Fifth: Sutekh - 20.8k attack - Great Hit to Defense (All)
The Jabberwock! It's just fun to say. This deck is set up with Hecate offering a boss buff, Jabberwock coming in with the next best one you could ask for, and Sutekh bringing a high base and a decent buff in the third spot. I do not use Tiamat in the set up because even with the higher stats, his buff is weak. He is viable though.
SR Demon Defense Deck:
Leader: Hamelin - 20.1k defense - Great Boost to Gods/Demons Defense
Second: Temptress Vampire - 18.7k defense - Great Hit to Foes Man Attack
Third: Death - 19.8k defense - Great Hit to Foes Gods Attack
Fourth: Temptress Vampire - 18.7k defense - Great Hit to Foes Man Attack
Fifth: Death - 19.8k defense - Great Hit to Foes Gods Attack
Yep, Demon SR Defense still sucks. Just use Hamelin with Xuanwu and BM.
Considering this is an SR Demon Defense Deck, this is the only way available to create a workable one. This set up is made with the intention of having a high base amount of attack then shuffling the debuffs to account for either man or god attacking. Realistically for Demons, 3 Skill 10 Wraiths and 2 Deaths as wing cards would be a much better set up. This set up yields just under 100k defense and debuffs for gods/men whereas a 3 skill 10 Wraith 2 Death combination would yield an optimistic 108-122k defense.
Until you get up to SSR Demons don't have a viable defense deck compared to both Man and Gods.
How about a post on best God cards? Thanks, this blog is very helpful!!
ReplyDeleteThey say the new Bloody Mistress kicks the Wraith off its pedestal.
ReplyDeleteWhoever "They" are, is wrong.
Delete**Following is a post in response to this comment which was already covered under R/HR Decks**
15k vs 18k defense. 13% buff vs 8% buff.
Lets just say 5 of each
Wraith 75k defense * 1.13 *1.13 *1.13 = 108k
Bloody 90K defense * 1.08 *1.08 *1.08 = 113k
Bloody wins so it seems to make sense at first glance. Now lets try assuming that wraiths are only used in the top three spots and given two wing cards (the way it would normally go).
3 Wraiths/Chimaera deck
79k defense *1.13*1.13*1.13 = 113.9k
Wraiths win in the first three spots. The only thing I would actually change now is that Chimaera is now virtually worthless as a wing card because Bloody Mistress took its spot as the highest defense HR wing card. The nice part about using Mistress in the last two spots is if she triggers instead of one of the top 3, the buff isn't completely worthless.
Thanks for this new set-up. But 12 Hekates.... that 400hp (i think) for each. And Sutehk 280 each. Thats really expensive. And with the Bazaar out, not easy making Hp.
ReplyDeleteWell they are the SR options lol.
DeleteThe other option to pretty much make a deck that is damn near unstoppable is to bring 5 Claymore to the table, top four skill 10.
Thing will beat 95% of defenses because the only defenses that beat it are 5 Apsara sk 10 or higher.
I know it's man realm but it is hands down the best.
What do you think if jormungand? In replacement of hekates? I can't find any hekates. Why didn't u mention him for defence? Aren't three jormungands and two deaths a better s rare set up.
ReplyDeleteHum, why thinking about a (as Defense Deck) the:
ReplyDelete> [Fallen Paladin] Dark Knight Luciella x 3 (At max 4 evolving)
not bad or really bad ?
It's pretty awful at my level but up to level 50 or so it's not to bad.
DeleteAlso Lucarda, if I send you a Fellow request, I think you refuse that no ? :p
ReplyDeleteMy general rule for friend requests is I want the person to be over level 60 to make sure they stick with the game. I also rarely have friend spots open but if you're over 60 and see me without one, feel free to send the request.
DeleteI was wondering, if the Dark General card is any good in a attack deck.
ReplyDeleteI dislike its buff and the stats I think are a bit low for an SR. I would say it's really solid especially as a 2nd/3rd card in a deck with NM leading the way.
DeleteWould it have any place in a SR attack deck though?
DeleteI think so. It's not a bad card, the issue is the buff loses 3% over nightmare.
DeleteMy major issue with it is it costs 85HP and results in high 17ks attack with a 10% buff. I would say look for Hecates but she's a lot more expensive and I bet you like the lower price.
Claymore maid is 45HP results in mid 17ks and a 13% buff. I know a lot of demon players who use a man offense just for claymore maid being SR quality in a HR.
Thanks for your advice. I don't really mind the price, I just want to have a good deck. I'll work to get the HP for it. Again thanks
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletewhat do you think of jormungand over sutekh?
ReplyDeleteI like Jorm more than Sutekh. The dual usage is nice. The downside is you can purchase some powerful offense cards and then BM defense and it will cost less and have a greater impact.
Deleteedit your SR deck then :)
Deletelike what kind of offensive cards are better than jorm in the sr deck? except for hekate as its crazy expensive. even hr as long as its a better setup.
im set on the 3 wraiths 2 deaths as my defense.
**how much do you think hekate will be when the event rewards are given? there will be like 2000 hekates..
Sutekh is a better wing card since wings are based on pure offensive stat :P
DeleteI like Jorm better because of dual usage, it's kind of nice not to have to skill up an offensive and defensive card.
For the most cost effective way to bulk up in Demon I would suggest Sutekh. Current low price on him makes him a very viable option.
Otherwise you can do what most demon players do if they are trying for a powerhouse. Three Skill 10 Claymores and Two Sanadas.
noooo! i already have the 3 nm 2 trows :(
ReplyDeletehow much do you think hecate will be after this event? if i can ff one, will hecate nm nm trow/tiamat be as good as claymore+sanada?
how much % do i lose if i switch to man cards?
and the 3 wraith 2 chimaera/death > 3 paladin 2 captain ?
Hecate will be expensive, 400-600HP would be my guess. I would be thrilled if it ended up under 300HP.
DeleteI think that Hec, NM, NM, Trow, Tia is still just slightly better. So close it's almost a dead heat. But when price comes into it and rarity and cost of skill upping a couple SSR, I still give the edge to Clays and Sanadas.
3Wraith 2Chim/death is > than 3Paladins 2Captains because of the realm bonus, otherwise Pallies/caps win.
400-600hp? but satan was at that price before the HW rewards. but after it was like 320+ HP, now its at 275+ HP.
Deletewould hecate be more expensive then satan after the event rewards come out?
Honestly I'm day to day on AH prices.
DeleteAnd Hecate has one stat that she straight kills Satan on, cup size.
lol, i do love hecates artwork..
ReplyDeleteif hecate did end up to be more expensive then satan (275hp each,1100 total), is it fine if i replace her?
1.satan 2.nm 3.nm trow trow? (91k base+3 boost)
or 2 sutekhs(150hp each,1200 total) since theyre kind of low now, maybe cheaper when hecate comes out:
1.nm 2.sutekh 3.sutekh trow trow? (96k base+1boost,2debuff)
and can 3 wraith 2 temptress (81.5k base)stop 3 clay 2 sanadas?
or
1 wraith 2 temp 2 death (91.7k base)
3 wraith 2 temp will not stop 3clay 2 sanada, neither will wraith, 2temp, 2 death, in MOST cases. There is some skill level and proc love related.
DeleteUsing the Nm, 2 Sutekh, 2 Trow I think would offer the highest stats out of the group for the price.
Besides, I happen to not think Satan is that great.
why you hatin' satan? 27 power and 1k+ more attack, same boost as hecate(29 power) and then theres the skill leveling, not too familiar with how hard ssr is compared to legend.
Deletewould you recommend any other 1100-1200 hp upgrade for attack?
and what would stop clay+sanada combo ?
**are there any new demon cards from 'banquet for the beasts' that are good?
I hate on satan because of the (all) buff in conjunction with only 21k attack, with the hardest skill boosting. Legend is stupidly hard to level.
DeleteWraith/4BM could stop Clay/Sanada combo but it'll be based on proc love and card skill levels.
None that Is saw for banquet.
i keep on sayin "then" it should be "THAN" :)
ReplyDeleteSo what you are saying is that 3x Claymore maid in spot 1-2-3, and then 2x sandada in spot 4-5 is better than 5x Sutehk?
ReplyDelete3 clay and 2 sanada all at skill 1 average a little over 123k. (Math is assuming 2 trigger because 3 triggering isn't the norm)
Delete5 Sutehk 113k base. Average base defense of your opponents lets assume 5 Apsara to be generous. 90k. So 20% debuff assuming 2 trigger. 18k debuffed. 113 + 18k debuff = 131.
So I think this is a loaded question where you were going to point out that math.
Of course then I would have to point out the amount of HP it would cost to purchase 5 Sutehk (I think a little over 5000). Then I would have to point out the truly absurd amount of HP it would take to skill the levels to 10 (It's so high I don't even know). Then I would have to point out that for just the cost of 5 Base FF Sutehk I could have 3 Skill 10 Claymores the 2 Sanada and over 3000 HP.
So yes. 3x Clay and 2 Sanada are better than 5 Sutehk because because you can reasonably have all the Clay at skill 10.
Whoops. Sutehk dropped in price a bit. I would only have 1000HP left to spend :P
DeleteHaha, I didn't ask to be rude mate, I were just wondering about your toughts behind it and wanted to make sure I got your point :)
DeleteBut the sad part is that it rly removes the point of choosing Demon :(. So in the long run I think I will get Sutehk cards and skill lvl them myself. And yeah the long long run :P.
DeleteHaha. If you're thinking of doing that I may recommend aiming for the Hecate's after the event and maybe aiming for SSR wings in Hydra.
DeleteWell I loved the Hekate cards until I saw the prices...
DeleteWell, wait until the event comes to a conclusion. I think they'll drop by 50-100HP.
DeleteAtm I'm running demon, 3 nm 2 trows for atk, and 1 wraith 4 bms for def. I've only played for less then 2 months but I don't know where to go from here. All the hrs are super cheap now ( sucks cuz I paid a lot more when o made these decks) I can't afford stuff like hecate or sutehk. I looked at man or god to see if anythings cheaper that's better but I don't know what to do for improvements. Any tips?
ReplyDeleteUse your HP to generate more HP. It snowballs. Once you do you can replace two NM with Dragonewts for a slight improvement.
DeleteThe nice part about where you're at deck wise is you can now spend time making HP and not have to worry about improving your deck, so that's what I'd be doing.
Hm a slight improvement seams like a waste. Was thinking of trying to save for 2 sutes . Nm sute sute trow trow?
ReplyDeleteSolid. With current prices not bad overall.
DeleteWhat's best after that? Getting a great or massive to demons to replace the nm?
ReplyDeleteHecate as a front runner would be a big improvement.
DeleteI'm rocking wraith 4 bm for def. Was thinkning of replacing a bm with my wraith and replace wraith with a great boost/debuff card for my next up grade. Any suggests ?
ReplyDeleteIn theory there isn't a better booster for demons until you hit SSR and then I would recommend Dark Dragoon which will net a 15% buff instead of 13% but have a much higher base.
DeleteOtherwise I would say wait until Echidna releases and accept the fact that she only has a 10% debuff to enemies defense but 20k defense instead of Wraiths 14.5k.
If you get rid of your wraith from top spot, remove her completely from your deck because her only purpose for not being a bloody mistress is the extra 5% on her buff to four high stat demon defense cards.
Which would u do? Dd or ech? What's stats on ech and Sr or hr evod or ?
ReplyDeletenvm dd is like 1800 hp lol have to wait for ech i guess
ReplyDeleteTake solace in the fact that your deck is still pretty tough to contend with if your top 3 are skill 10.
Deleteok cool thanks! they are, i posted about attack deck also and im chosing to do sutekahs so ill work on that knowing my defs good now.
DeleteMe and my orders def lead were talking demon ssrs as that is where he is playing with the resources he has, currently running double dark dragoon and 3 BM the topic of medusa came up, is she the next progression when we start talking demon def? He was thinking 3 Dd and 2 medusa as wings, I think he may be right but the ssr info out there is minimal compared to most deck info.
ReplyDeleteIt's an exceedingly small percentage of players that make the SSR bracket.
DeleteMedusa would be my next progression in Demon at the moment but not as a wing. Her debuff will be 15% while Dragoon will be a 15% boost. I think she belongs at the head.
Although I normally favor buffs, at such a high level the only opponents he would have to worry about will have a higher base offense than his base defense, therefor the debuff will net more. If they have a lower base offense, they will probably lose anyway all thing considered.
I think front spot is where she belongs until a proper defense buff card comes out for demons SSR.
Hey which defense would u prefer and why
ReplyDelete1 wraith 4 BMs
1 wraith 2 death 2 temptress v...
3 wraith 2 death
Or a man realm HR defense ?
1W 4BM - It offers the largest defense after buffs are considered. Although temp and death have higher base defenses their debuffs are unreliable at best.
ReplyDeleteFollowed by 3 Wraith 2 Death because it will have the next highest defense.
Finishing with Man HR because it's cheap and effective.
1W,2D,2TV just isn't really viable. It's four crap buffs even if it has a high base.
Thanks lucaeda appreciate it, I'm still torn on what to do I think I'm gonna go man def and concentrate on attack now that dragonewt princess is out but then again she's just too expensive *sigh*
ReplyDeleteLucarda I have just came into a some HP about 600 I was wondering what would be a good deck for that price? (I was going to make a Demon deck but any will do)
ReplyDeleteAt the moment I have a pretty poor Attack and defence deck.
Hi Lucarda,
ReplyDeleteThanks for the blog, great work
I have a question,
My ATK deck looks like this, all in Full Form
Zombie Rider 14,5K Big boost to ATK all
Inugami 13,5K Big boost to demon ATK/DEF
Demonic Slave 12,7K Med boost to ATK all
Wraith 15,0K --
Delphyne 15,3K --
Working on Nightmare, when finished, what card should be replaced? And do you suggest a Mino or a Archdaemon? I dont spend money in-game.
Now short question about DEF deck
Wraith
Inugami
Delphyne
Manticore
Zombie rider
What should my next card be? I got a Death from a pack, use that one? Will take ages to collect the HP..
Or Bloody Mitress. I think the Chimeara.
Thanks for the feedback!!
MennoMaester (ign)
Offensively toss Demonic slave. Your order should be: Nightmare, ZRider, Inu for your top 3. Afterwards you can either work on getting two trow elves for wing cards or swapping out the Inu/Zombie for Dragonewt. I recommend trow since it is cheaper and will offer a better increase.
DeleteDefensively I would say you have two options. If you're looking for the cheap option go Chimaera to replace manticore and zrider. If you're going for the long term with a little more expense, start accumulating four bloody mistresses.
Thank you,
DeleteI will go for:
ATK:
Nightmare
Zombie Rider
Inugami
Trow Elf
Trow Elf
After that probably another Nightmare.
Dragonewt is not an option.
DEF
Wraith
Inugami
Delphyne
Chimaera
Chimaera
After those, the Bloody Mistresses will be on the Wishlist.
Thanks again.
I know I am beating a dead horse, but Sutekh is better than Hekate. At sk10, 20% debuff is equal to a 25% buff, and his stats are higher. Even on a sk1, his 10% debuff is equivalent to a 11% buff, but his stats are 4.25% higher than Hekate, making his "buff" about 15.25% compared to Hekate's 15%. Best Demon Attack deck is 5x Sutekh.
ReplyDeleteI decided to look into buffs vs debuffs to double check my information. Honestly finding solid information on this subject is a pain in the ass but I did find this:
DeleteThis text was taken from http://wiki.rageofbahamut.com/Talk:Skill_cards
Skill Stacking Test -- TylerDurden (talk) 11:48, 30 November 2012 (UTC) -- TylerDurden (talk) 11:48, 30 November 2012 (UTC)
I ran a test to determine if a buff from a defender would be calculated using the deck's base value (outcome 1), or if it would be calculated using the base value with debuffs applied (outcome 2). To do this, I created a scenario with two simple cards using "all" skills. The defense card has one single defense point higher than the attack card. Both players are using non-realm cards and have no other bonuses applied.
Attacker
Card: Goblin Fighter (R)
Attack: 2866
Skill: [Rage] Medium hit to foe's DEF (all)
Defender
Card: High lancer
Defense: 2867
Skill: [Lightning Lance] Medium boost to DEF (all)
If outcome 1 is true, then the defense value should be identical and the defender will win. If outcome 2 is true, the resulting defense value should be slightly lower, and the attacker should win.
In the test, the defender won proving that the defender's buffs are not calculated using the debuffed base value.
--------
If what he calculated is correct, it means that attack is not calculated first and defensive buffs are not calculated second off of the reduced value. This would make debuffs hands down inferior to buffs because the additional percentages can only accrued if the defenders buffs are based on the debuffed number, which this case shows is not true. I'm going to post this and see if anybody can verify the information.
This comment has been removed by the author.
DeleteIf it is true that buff wins over debuff, would it change your mind concerning placing Medusa at the front of an ssr demon defense over dark dragoon?
DeleteIt's partially determined by power of the debuff. All things considered, buffs and debuffs are so close in power when they are the same percentage (DD and Med are both 15%) that you should be more concerned with luck. Using one over the other wouldn't really make a difference. Just aim for your highest percentages in the top 3 spots.
DeleteI wonder when will Echidna be released... Not really looking for the ultimate defense but I would want her as my lead.
ReplyDeleteWhat do you think about the new hamelin card? It has a good base stat and a great god/demon Def buf.
ReplyDeleteHamelin is a great card. Demons have needed an SR defense card. Lancelot is still a better defense card though.
DeleteWith this new card mechanics I'm wondering if I have to make any changes, demon realm. Running Satan nm nm Tia Tia for atk and 3 aps 2 9tails for def. Any suggestions? Should i remake them now with the double smoldering proccing less now?
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteHi just want to ask for your suggestion. I keep on losing and I don't why especially on def. These are my deck:
ReplyDeleteAtk Deck:
Satan, 2NM, Suketh, Jourm
Def Deck:
Wraith, BM, Jourm, Temptress Vamp, Chimaera
I changed it from 4 Apsaras, 1 Shield Angel. I'm not really sure which is better. But I still keep on losing.
What can you suggest I change in my decks? Thanks
Skills and the levels of the skills play a huge role. Level your skills to 10 if you can. On top of that, try to grab another BM and liquidate that Chim. Running Wraith, Jorm, BM, BM, TV would be pretty solid by any standard.
ReplyDelete4Apsara's and 1 Shield Angel was better.
I see, really 4aps and 1shield angel was better? lucky i didn't sell them yet. So I just need to lvl up their skills to 10 and it would be the better def deck right?
ReplyDeleteeven if I am demon realm, the apsara def is better?
ReplyDeleteYep.
DeleteWhat are your thoughts on the new cards out now? Jabberwocky has a really solid base attack at 20.2k with a 4-7, and it's skill great boost to demon/god attack. Hamelin is a huge upgrade for demon defense decks. 20.1k defense, and the same dual realm boost to defense.
ReplyDeleteExpect them to rise in price as more and more information comes out on stacking the same card.
DeletePick up the dual skill cards. They are significantly better than (all) skill cards.
I am moving over to SR slowly but surely, running a NM, mad hatter, lailaps and two trows. I have started on a Jorm, a card I've always wanted but should I stop and go for jabberwocky instead. I thought jorm would be better as it would help on my def as well although I have 2 wight kings I am trying to hang into for that.
ReplyDeleteI don't like Jorm at all. His defense is still weaker than Bloody Mistress, making him a step down from a HR.
DeleteMy def is pretty poor so focussing on attack just now, I run a wraith 2 BM, Chim and mad hatter in def so jorm would be an improvement in both decks.
ReplyDeletehey luc love the advice. imlooking for the final demon piece to my def deck currently have wraith, bm, bm, all skill 10 and death 20k . need final card what is your sugesstion?
ReplyDeleteYou'd be fine with another death. Otherwise swap the wraith for Hamelin and get a Xuanwu in the last spot.
Deletethanks my man
ReplyDeleteI could use some input on my next card. Just switched from specialized realm attack decks to a general boost deck while replacing some cards. Now I have Jormund (6-11l), Night Mare (6-7), Jabberwocky (4-7), Tiamat (6-11) and dead Moe guy (6-11). My plan is to get rid of dead guy and get Suthek and I have the hp for that. Don't have enough to get Hekate but I should replace Night Mare with something. But with what?
ReplyDeleteHekate would be excellent but not sure how to fund it. Or should I make it my loong term goal? Or should I get 2 base Tiamat and upgrade my tia to fifth form and use as wing card and keep NM?
Thanks in advance
/K
Thanks for the blog I have been looking for your recommendation on ssr demon cards for both atk and def can you help
ReplyDeleteHey! great work man. Inspired on your blog, my deck is full 6max hr cards. I have a question: is worth to do 6max SR decks? I ask because the decks you posted here are based on 4max evos. Thanks!!
ReplyDeleteHey Luc,
ReplyDeleteWhat is the boost for Hamelin? Not sure of I should get a Hekate and Hamelin or just get a Dark Dragoon.
Hamelin's Boost is 13%. Dark Dragoon would be 15%.
DeleteLucarda what do you think of this atk deck: hekate, echidna, jabber, echidna, jabber? Or should I got for the same but with arch blood Mage as wings?
ReplyDeleteDE DC. I'd run with Hekate/Echidna/Jabber/Sutekh/Blood Mage. ABCDD isn't bad, but ABCDE is roughly 4% superior.
DeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeleteLucarda, What are your feelings on this? a cheap"ish" Demon Srare/high rare hybrid deck comprised of Hamelin/Marsyas/Eos/Bloody Mistress/Xuanwu or Enchanting Mistress).
ReplyDeleteThis setup would allow all of your top 3 to boost every card in your deck while allowing you to mitigate attacks with debuffs to demons, since you have 2 god cards to offset that.
Roughly 92k Def Base and pretty darn cheap (all this consdering).