I was going to update my previous posts on skilling up cards, but after going through charts I really realized that the amount of math I was going to have to do was just too much. Also with the cost variables of certain cards not only as a base, but at certain skill levels vs skilling them youself.
Because of this I'm going to just add another area here about the times when using skilled cards seems to be more valuable.
Personally after figuring in everything, using skilled cards is not something I would do before SSR/Legend quality cards at high skill levels for a couple reasons.
1) Skilled cards cost more to skill up yourself before using. For example, Jean-Baptiste uses the example below of a Rare feeder giving 3.5% chance to skill up an SSR from level 5 to level 6. A rare feeder with a skill of 5 gives 9.6% chance. This means using 10 skill 5 rare feeders will net an almost sure skill up. Unfortunately each rare would cost about 4HP to level to skill 5. Meaning each skill five feeder has a rough cost of 4HP x 10 of them = 40HP to move from 5-6. Using level 1 Rares has an estimated cost of 20-24HP after multiple attempts.
2) Assuming you can purchase the necessary skilled cards for smaller amounts of HP, they still require a long time to accumulate with Bazaar tickets. HR will take five days to accumulate 10 forgoing all other trading.
3) The math is just wonky and I don't wanna do it.
Now, when I WOULD use higher skilled feeders.
Levels 7, 8, and 9 of SR. SSR, Legend I would consider it. The low percentage chance from the high cost per attempt makes sense to use higher skilled feeders.
Remember that each attempt is its own unique attempt so since the chances technically aren't better each time you fail, making purchasing skilled R/HR in those situations very appealing.
Finally, thanks to all the people who let me know skilling cards before using them to enhance a skill is a viable method. Thanks to Jean-Baptiste for the link HERE that shows a chart of all the % and skill ups.
Monday, November 12, 2012
Friday, November 9, 2012
Skilling UP Posts will be edited
Well, although I said I HATE writing about skill ups. Seems I had been doing it wrong. but not really since I only ever skill up SR cards (HR changed to SR) So there was virtually never any reason to go past High Normals for me.
Apparently through skilling up cards used before hand you can drastically increase the % chance to skill up. I was unaware of this since I primarily use HN in my skill ups and went off the charts I had posted ages ago which don't reflect card skill levels.
So, next Monday I'll do the math on what it's going to take. Sorry for any inconvenience.
Apparently through skilling up cards used before hand you can drastically increase the % chance to skill up. I was unaware of this since I primarily use HN in my skill ups and went off the charts I had posted ages ago which don't reflect card skill levels.
So, next Monday I'll do the math on what it's going to take. Sorry for any inconvenience.
Wednesday, November 7, 2012
Skilling Up Part 2
Continued from Skill Up Part 1
Skilling high rarity cards poses an interesting predicament. That being that technically you can purchase HR for 1HP on a regular basis, either treasure HR or event HR. Also that you can purchase rares for 1CW each if you look around. But in both cases it is a pain to accumulate large numbers of rares or HR given the limitations of Bazaar tickets. Finally, by purchasing Skilled High Normals you get to purchase a rare for roughly the price of .4 HP per rare (which is what I consider roughly the cost of one CW) but you can attain them through feeder service. Either way, because of this my math on pricing will be done at the rate of 4HP per 9 Rares. If I use High Rares I will be doing them at the approximate price of 9HP per 9 High Rares.
*SIDENOTE* All my math is done assuming the use of 9 cards, in a vast majority of cases it is beneficial to use 10 cards, especially near the end. The reason for using 9 cards is because in feeder service you are normally only attaining 9 and most people skilling up will just use them instead of waiting for a 10th card.
*SIDENOTE* Thanks to Jean-Baptiste for linking chart and everybody who mentioned skilled cards increase chance of increase. Damn you all as well because it just gives me extra work.
Lvl 1-2: 9 Rares yielding 72% chance to skill up - 28% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 4-8HP.
Lvl 2-3: 9 Rares yielding 48% chance to skill up - 52% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 8-12HP
Lvl 3-4: 9 Rares yielding 36% chance to skill up - 64% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 16-20HP
Lvl 4-5: 9 Rares yielding 28% chance to skill up - 72% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 16-20HP
Lvl 5-6: 9 Rares yielding 24% chance to skill up - 76% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 20-24HP
Lvl 6-7: 9 Rares yielding 20% chance to skill up - 80% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 24-28HP
Lvl 7-8: 9 Rares yielding 18% chance to skill up - 82% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 24-28HP.
Lvl 8-9: 9 Rares yielding 16% chance to skill up - 84% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 28-32HP
Lvl 9-10: 9 Rares yielding 14% chance to skill up - 86% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 28-32HP
Final rough price is around 190ish HP on average but can really increase heavily during the last three levels. During this time be sure to pepper in that 10th card. It still isn't worth it as far as I can tell to use HR at this point. The reason is that using it from 8-9 for example would be roughly 30% chance of success but would cost 10HP each attempt. You'll notice at that pricing it's starting to level out on price per percentage, but its close and a string of bad luck at 10HP per pop adds up fast.
Lvl 1-2: 9 High Rares yielding 72% chance to skill up - 28% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 9-18HP
Lvl 2-3: 9 High Rares yielding 48% chance to skill up - 52% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 18-27HP
Lvl 3-4: 9 High Rares yielding 36% chance to skill up - 64% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 36-45HP
Lvl 4-5: 9 High Rares yielding 28% chance to skill up - 72% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 36-45HP
Lvl 5-6: 9 High Rares yielding 24% chance to skill up - 76% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 45-54HP
Lvl 6-7: 9 High Rares yielding 20% chance to skill up - 80% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 54-63HP
Lvl 7-8: 9 High Rares yielding 18% chance to skill up - 82% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 54-63HP
Lvl 8-9: 9 High Rares yielding 16% chance to skill up - 84% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 63-72HP
Lvl 9-10: 9 High Rares yielding 14% chance to skill up - 86% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 63-72HP
Final rough price is about 420HP to max it. Before I went through this step by step I really didn't think I'd come to the conclusion that Devil Queens are way overpriced, but lo and behold. Devil Queens currently running for 130HP each which is absurd. That means that using a Devil Queen mimics the cost of my worse case scenarios using High Rares. Devil Queens should be 50HP each.
Unfortunately there is a time variable. Purchasing enough HR given the limited number of bazaar tickets would take some time. Devil Queens can be purchased much more easily and quickly.
*FINAL THOUGHTS* Overall I hate the topic of skill enhancement. I find it boring and too uncontrolled to be completely accurate with. Since it deals with percentages I can say that it will cost 72HP to level from 9-10 on a legend card but it could just as easily end up taking 50 attempts and then I get some angry person spouting on how I don't know what I'm talking about. I avoided this topic because it is based quite a bit around luck and only did this post because a few people asked for it. Do NOT expect future posts on skill enhancement unless something new and interesting occurs.
Skilling high rarity cards poses an interesting predicament. That being that technically you can purchase HR for 1HP on a regular basis, either treasure HR or event HR. Also that you can purchase rares for 1CW each if you look around. But in both cases it is a pain to accumulate large numbers of rares or HR given the limitations of Bazaar tickets. Finally, by purchasing Skilled High Normals you get to purchase a rare for roughly the price of .4 HP per rare (which is what I consider roughly the cost of one CW) but you can attain them through feeder service. Either way, because of this my math on pricing will be done at the rate of 4HP per 9 Rares. If I use High Rares I will be doing them at the approximate price of 9HP per 9 High Rares.
*SIDENOTE* All my math is done assuming the use of 9 cards, in a vast majority of cases it is beneficial to use 10 cards, especially near the end. The reason for using 9 cards is because in feeder service you are normally only attaining 9 and most people skilling up will just use them instead of waiting for a 10th card.
*SIDENOTE* Thanks to Jean-Baptiste for linking chart and everybody who mentioned skilled cards increase chance of increase. Damn you all as well because it just gives me extra work.
Skilling an SSR (SR evolved into SSR)
Lvl 1-2: 9 Rares yielding 72% chance to skill up - 28% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 4-8HP.
Lvl 2-3: 9 Rares yielding 48% chance to skill up - 52% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 8-12HP
Lvl 3-4: 9 Rares yielding 36% chance to skill up - 64% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 16-20HP
Lvl 4-5: 9 Rares yielding 28% chance to skill up - 72% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 16-20HP
Lvl 5-6: 9 Rares yielding 24% chance to skill up - 76% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 20-24HP
Lvl 6-7: 9 Rares yielding 20% chance to skill up - 80% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 24-28HP
Lvl 7-8: 9 Rares yielding 18% chance to skill up - 82% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 24-28HP.
Lvl 8-9: 9 Rares yielding 16% chance to skill up - 84% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 28-32HP
Lvl 9-10: 9 Rares yielding 14% chance to skill up - 86% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 28-32HP
Final rough price is around 190ish HP on average but can really increase heavily during the last three levels. During this time be sure to pepper in that 10th card. It still isn't worth it as far as I can tell to use HR at this point. The reason is that using it from 8-9 for example would be roughly 30% chance of success but would cost 10HP each attempt. You'll notice at that pricing it's starting to level out on price per percentage, but its close and a string of bad luck at 10HP per pop adds up fast.
Skilling a Legend (SSR evolved into Legend)
Lvl 1-2: 9 High Rares yielding 72% chance to skill up - 28% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 9-18HP
Lvl 2-3: 9 High Rares yielding 48% chance to skill up - 52% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 18-27HP
Lvl 3-4: 9 High Rares yielding 36% chance to skill up - 64% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 36-45HP
Lvl 4-5: 9 High Rares yielding 28% chance to skill up - 72% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 36-45HP
Lvl 5-6: 9 High Rares yielding 24% chance to skill up - 76% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 45-54HP
Lvl 6-7: 9 High Rares yielding 20% chance to skill up - 80% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 54-63HP
Lvl 7-8: 9 High Rares yielding 18% chance to skill up - 82% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 54-63HP
Lvl 8-9: 9 High Rares yielding 16% chance to skill up - 84% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 63-72HP
Lvl 9-10: 9 High Rares yielding 14% chance to skill up - 86% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 63-72HP
Final rough price is about 420HP to max it. Before I went through this step by step I really didn't think I'd come to the conclusion that Devil Queens are way overpriced, but lo and behold. Devil Queens currently running for 130HP each which is absurd. That means that using a Devil Queen mimics the cost of my worse case scenarios using High Rares. Devil Queens should be 50HP each.
Unfortunately there is a time variable. Purchasing enough HR given the limited number of bazaar tickets would take some time. Devil Queens can be purchased much more easily and quickly.
*FINAL THOUGHTS* Overall I hate the topic of skill enhancement. I find it boring and too uncontrolled to be completely accurate with. Since it deals with percentages I can say that it will cost 72HP to level from 9-10 on a legend card but it could just as easily end up taking 50 attempts and then I get some angry person spouting on how I don't know what I'm talking about. I avoided this topic because it is based quite a bit around luck and only did this post because a few people asked for it. Do NOT expect future posts on skill enhancement unless something new and interesting occurs.
Monday, November 5, 2012
Skilling Up Part 1
Alright, this is mostly theory crafting based on math. If this is not the absolute cheapest way to skill up a card from 1-10 it's pretty damn close. My rough prices are based on number of attempts that should be reasonable based on eyeballing the percentages. I did not use best case scenarios nor did I use worse case scenarios. I estimated somewhere in between. I am NOT willing to start calculating probability of individual events with varying percent chances.
Special Note: No, using 1 card at a time will not yield better results. It is a mathematically fallacy that is proven even more false the more you do it. Some people have experienced success using 1 HN at a time and rave about how it's better. These people are plainly wrong. They got lucky one time and if they continue doing it that way, much like gambling at a casino, it will balance out for their loss.
Lvl 1-2: 8 Skilled High Normals yielding 96% chance to skill up - Rough Price under 1HP
Lvl 2-3: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 72% chance to skill up - 28% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 1-2HP
Lvl 3-4: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 54% chance to skill up - 46% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 2-3HP
Lvl 4-5: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 44% chance to skill up - 56% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 2-3HP
Lvl 5-6: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 39% chance to skill up - 61% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 3-4HP
Lvl 6-7: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 31% chance to skill up - 69% (giggity) chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 4-5HP
Lvl 7-8: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 27% chance to skill up - 73% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 4-5HP
Lvl 8-9: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 27% chance to skill up - 73% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 4-5HP
Lvl 9-10: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 22% chance to skill up - 78% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 6-7HP
Overall this should normally average out to somewhere around 30ishHP but could get as bad as 40+HP
Lvl 1-2: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 72% chance to skill up - 28% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 1-2HP
Lvl 2-3: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 48% chance to skill up - 52% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 2-3HP
Lvl 3-4: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 36% chance to skill up - 64% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 4-5HP
Lvl 4-5: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 28% chance to skill up - 72% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 4-5HP
Lvl 5-6: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 24% chance to skill up - 76% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 5-6HP
Lvl 6-7: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 20% chance to skill up - 80% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 6-7HP
Lvl 7-8: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 18% chance to skill up - 82% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 6-7HP
Lvl 8-9: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 16% chance to skill up - 84% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 7-8HP
Lvl 9-10: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 14% chance to skill up - 86% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 7-8HP
Overall this should normally average out somewhere around 40HP but could get as bad as 50+. The last few levels can get particularly bad.
In both rarity classes there is no reason to evolve the High Normals into Rares since the percentage increase is so small and requires four HN.
Special Note: No, using 1 card at a time will not yield better results. It is a mathematically fallacy that is proven even more false the more you do it. Some people have experienced success using 1 HN at a time and rave about how it's better. These people are plainly wrong. They got lucky one time and if they continue doing it that way, much like gambling at a casino, it will balance out for their loss.
Skilling a High Rare (rare evolved into HR):
Lvl 1-2: 8 Skilled High Normals yielding 96% chance to skill up - Rough Price under 1HP
Lvl 2-3: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 72% chance to skill up - 28% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 1-2HP
Lvl 3-4: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 54% chance to skill up - 46% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 2-3HP
Lvl 4-5: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 44% chance to skill up - 56% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 2-3HP
Lvl 5-6: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 39% chance to skill up - 61% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 3-4HP
Lvl 6-7: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 31% chance to skill up - 69% (giggity) chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 4-5HP
Lvl 7-8: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 27% chance to skill up - 73% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 4-5HP
Lvl 8-9: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 27% chance to skill up - 73% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 4-5HP
Lvl 9-10: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 22% chance to skill up - 78% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 6-7HP
Overall this should normally average out to somewhere around 30ishHP but could get as bad as 40+HP
Skilling an SR (HR evolved into SR)
Lvl 1-2: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 72% chance to skill up - 28% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 1-2HP
Lvl 2-3: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 48% chance to skill up - 52% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 2-3HP
Lvl 3-4: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 36% chance to skill up - 64% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 4-5HP
Lvl 4-5: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 28% chance to skill up - 72% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 4-5HP
Lvl 5-6: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 24% chance to skill up - 76% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 5-6HP
Lvl 6-7: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 20% chance to skill up - 80% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 6-7HP
Lvl 7-8: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 18% chance to skill up - 82% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 6-7HP
Lvl 8-9: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 16% chance to skill up - 84% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 7-8HP
Lvl 9-10: 9 Skilled High Normals yielding 14% chance to skill up - 86% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 7-8HP
Overall this should normally average out somewhere around 40HP but could get as bad as 50+. The last few levels can get particularly bad.
In both rarity classes there is no reason to evolve the High Normals into Rares since the percentage increase is so small and requires four HN.
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