Sunday, January 20, 2013

Holy War Post War Update

Well, the war is over for me since I've run through 600HP this war and I don't have time to recoup before my Orders last battle. Overall, we will be ranking around rank 40 (hopefully under) with our efforts. To give people an idea of what it takes to meet this rank I decided to write this.

Every member of our order spent 300+HP, mostly during full Shingeki+Combo bonuses while using at least the small point boost cards. We only attacked Order Leaders, Vice Leaders, Attack Leaders, Support Leaders so we always got those bonus points, after five were dead they reset and we repeated. We have members in our order that spent over 1000HP carrying members who could only afford spending around the 300. These same members sold their cards from coin packs to earn more HP to spend as they went.

In the end, our Order will have spent about 20,000HP to achieve top 40 (assuming we hit it). This means we will have spent an average of 520HP per person. The rewards for top 40 equal roughly 400HP and hopefully we can earn 200HP in silver coin rewards as well. If we each spent 520HP we would be hopefully earning 80HP in profit from the entire experience. We won't even be eligible for Order Victory awards because we only fought about 6 wars. My individual reward for spending 600HP will be in the 1000-3000 bracket which is worth about 10HP.

Now, if we miss top 40, our prizes will be worth about 150HP each and we will be losing our asses.

Now, here's the interesting part. If I took that same 600HP I spent, purchased 8 Raphellias, combined them into their final forms, waited two weeks, I could probably easily sell them for 1500HP. Or, I could have purchased Devil Queens at 70HP each and sold them for 120HP each in two weeks for, 960HP.

This means that under pretty much 100% of scenarios I could make more HP taking advantage of low Holy Wars trading prices than I could actually participating in Holy Wars.

So why do I do it? Because it's more fun that playing the game like an auction house.

The moral of this story is Mobage needs to take another look at their reward structures because at the moment, it's so unbalanced that it favors people never participating. This means most players will stop participating in events which just leads to ceasing to participate at all.
 





42 comments:

  1. All you forgot was an Amen, as you are preaching in this piece. Your experience and assistance is appreciated. I also had a question about order position levels, would it be possible for you to know if the position levels carry over for next costly HW? (Not if you're switching in the "off season" I would assume, but if you maintain your role).

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    1. The position levels are lowered between holy war events, but carries between wars during the same event. For example in this past event once I hit level 5 it carried through the rest of the battles but when the next event starts I will be one again. So there is no penalty to swapping.

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  2. hey lucarda, i know how a ad havoc order sucks. my alt account is the only one participating in hws. i spent 50 hp and i won 15 hws. im getting some good rewards from my main accs rewards with a cruel princess on my alt, i want the other order members to give me their cruel princesses since i participated

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  3. As a new player who started during the Holidays and was introduced to the game during the Not so Silent Night event. The Holy Wars were a different aspect. I was totally unprepared. Mostly because I was unwilling to buy pre-evolved max HR. My deck was an assortment of Base HR that got max near the end of the war. and a few Maxed Rares from the previous event. Overall I managed to spent 80 HP most of that personal. Looks like I will miss top 30k by a slim margin and my order is just under 4k. I won't make back what I used but I not know how to build decks seeing so many from attacking. My biggest achievement this period was that we won 10 battles. The last win was 10 min from the end. Overall I like the Holy War with abilities. I won't comment on the rewards structure since I have limited knowledge. Just a curious question do you save your coins or burn them as soon as you pass them out? I saved my last day and enjoyed get 25 or so cards.

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    1. I burn them right away since you can reset the packs when you get an SSR. I actually have over 200 more coins to pass out after passing out coins every day to every member and only received 1 DQ as my best reward. Many of my order mates seem to have gotten DQ+SSR.

      My pulls sucked balls.

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  4. lucky, i didnt get anything from SC, and i ranked 5 k in a order that i only battled myself.check me out, patrix8625

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  5. i prfer to save them until its long due in case you need emergency feding

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  6. Overall, My order didn't make top 40. This means that I lost 400HP on this HW Event.

    I'm so pissed at the moment because I could have made close to 900HP if I just used my HP in trading during the HW.

    When an entire order can spend over 20,000HP and not receive a reward that pays 500HP per player, there's an issue with rewards.

    If Mobage doesn't fix the reward structure, I'm going to spend all my time on Marvel.

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    1. When the entire order spends 2,000HP and not revieve a reward that pays over 50HP per player there's an issue with rewards.

      When the entire order spends 200HP and not recieve a reward that pays over 5HP per player there's an issue with rewards.

      Cost/benefit analysis is the heart and soul of game design. This is a lesson they need to learn. FAST.

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    2. Whilst I feel the frustration. I don't believe we should expect a pay out because we have spent x hp. If it was to work that way then everyone would be up at the end. That cant work... However I feel the pain of people who spent more than they received.

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    3. You're right that the payout shouldn't be profitable for everybody. But currently the most profitable payout is for people who don't participate at all.

      All payouts should occur along a curve based on rank. Instead the curve is completely off. I have previously broken it down in a comment ages ago, but currently less than 1% of players who actually participate are able to profit.

      This could partially be seen as an issue with players being overly okay with spending their HP, but Mobage has actually been scaling back rewards steadily as well when they should be more generous as more players start since it creates more competition.

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  7. What everybody needs to do is email mobage about these high level exploiters who are ruining the game. When you look at top players it is impossible for them to hit those levels without cheating or spending thousands upon thousands of dollars.

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    1. Yes! I called the leader of the #1 order out on this and all he kept saying is that my account is trash and that I'm hating cause I can't be with the top players and bs like that. No. I'm mad because nerds like him ruin the game and control the big rewards in HW.

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    2. Without wanting to be a dick. Can you confirm he didnt get where he is without cheating?

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    3. Hm. I never checked to see what the top person ended at but I believe it was well over 50 million points. Given what I've estimated with all bonuses this would take at least 18,000 HP to hit 50 Million.

      Now, you can buy 1000HP for about $350 on certain forums. This would mean a person would be willing to spend over $6000 worth of HP.

      Even if a person was willing to spend that much money, only an idiot would since they could easily buy all the cards they want with that amount of HP. Unless they couldn't because the HP was personal, this makes the most sense.

      I know for a FACT that top level orders have members that create 1000s of alt accounts for the express purpose of hitting 5HP bonuses. I know of over 30 players in two high ranking orders who were banned for the practice...after they got away with it 3 times already!

      So, yes. I can confirm, that he was cheating with as much certainty that I can confirm that we landed on the moon. The rough meaning being, if you really think he's spending 18,000 legitimately earned HP, I know sexy singles in the area who want to meet you.

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  8. Raphaela will never reach that price again.... i dont think that way would work. DQ however, might. It depends on when they do HW10 to finish the trio. If they do it soon, then DQ prices wont go back to 120 any time soon.

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    1. ACtually, I think it is more profitable to buy Uriel and wait for 2 weeks, after this card park, her price will go up quickly.

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  9. It seems like mobage is pulling back the rewards so people won't be inclined to dump the massive amounts of hp (I remember when 200 was a big deal!) but it doesn't seem to be helping at all.

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    1. Mobage wants people to spend HP so they can make more.

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  10. Dont you think RAphaella prices will drop once the rewards get out? As soon as the rewards comes out over a thousand will hit the market?

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    1. She's been a card from the silver coins and many of the people selling her were trying to get fast HP.

      Without the need to get fast HP, there is little reason for her to remain at that price. It would be foolish to think she would remain that low.

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  11. Hi Lucarda
    I have been reading your blog ever since I started. I find it very informative. With regards to your post above could you clarify how MWH is better than RoB when it comes to the reward structure. I'm not sure Cygame/Mobage can fix this. I understand people spent more HP than ever in this HW,. Giving awesome rewards will get people even more excited and will make them spend even more. So I'm not sure how MWH has solved this.
    Thanks Man

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    1. Well, for example the top 5000 players in the current event get SSR cards (Equivalent to SR in Rage). Versus RoB that not only gives out HR, but gives out some of the worst HR in the game.

      ...for starters.

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  12. to keep my post in perspective I started playing Rob right before Christmas

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  13. Did you see the new news from Mobage??

    *Copied*
    Thank you for playing Rage of Bahamut.

    In order to improve your overall user experience and prevent inappropriate Trading within the game, we will be revamping the Bazaar system. Please note that the change will be effective Feb. 4th, 2013 (ET). Changes include the following:

    1) Registered/Non-Registered Users
    - Only user who performed Device Registration may now make use of the Bazaar system. Non-registered users will not be able to utilize the system.

    2) Search Function
    - You will now be able to search for Cards using Card names.
    - You will still be able to search via filters.

    3) Selling Cards on the Bazaar
    - When selling a Card for others on the Bazaar, you will only be able to request Cards of the same rarity on your Bazaar WishList. For example, if you are selling a High Rare Card on the Bazaar you may only request High Rare Card(s).
    - Due to the above changes, we will be adjusting the Guidance section for the Bazaar.

    4) Trade/Gift Limitations of SSR+ Cards
    - Any newly added Cards that are SSR or Rarer will now only be Tradable for up to 10 days from the release date. Once the 10 days have expired you will no longer be able to Trade the Card, and must sell and/or purchase it via the Bazaar.
    - Please note that the above does not apply to Cards whose Rarity reaches SSR at final evolution.
    -You will only be able to Gift Cards that are Rare or below.

    5) Trading Restrictions for Items
    - Previously, the Trading rules required you to be either a Fellow or in the same Order for 2 weeks. Please note that this duration will been extended to 30 days when Trading Items.
      - Under the new rules you must meet the requirements below to Trade/Gift Items:
      - You are a Fellow and/or in the same Order as the other user
      - Either and/or both of the following:
        1) You have been a Fellow with the user for at least 30 days.
        2) You have been in the same Order for at least 30 days.

    *Note that this will only affect Trading of Items and that Trading/Gifting limitations for Cards are still set to 2 weeks

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  14. Hey Lucarda. Great post on how the game is going right now. I totally agree. Looks like only the top 40 orders can make a profit from Holy Wars. I've spent three times as much hp as last HW, but still ended up near the same ranking...

    My opinion on this is Mobage/Cygames won't do anything about it. In fact, I think they created this situation on purpose.

    Remember in the old days when hp used to be the real currency? Than they introduced the Bazaar and prices dropped to only 1hp for the lowest of high rares now. Basically, high rares have become rares and SR's have become HR's. With the only difference that the gap between HR and SR is bigger than the gap between R and HR was.

    Than they gave us crappy rewards so we couldn't earn hp with trading good cards. As a result if you want to make a profit from HW's (or other events for that matter) you have to BUY hp's. A lot. And you have to be in an order where everybody buys hp. A lot.

    Right now it would make more sense to buy low and sell high with the hp's you've got. Or as some of our order have thought about, quit once you've got good cards from the silver coins. But none would do that because we feel loyal to the order. And as you've pointed out, it's just less fun.

    I do hope that Mobage/Cygames balance the rewards more. I can understand that if you spend 300hp, you could win or lose about 50hp. That's all in the game. But right now, with 300hp, you'd be lucky to lose less than 200hp. That' just not fair. But I'm afraid since Mobage/Cygames is a greedy money making machine, they won't change a thing unless too many players actually do quit this game and only about 1400 players are left.

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  15. Im in an order that ranked about 2500 and got 23 wins. I spent about 30 personel and 30 non personal hp between 2 accounts. In the silver cps I got 1 dq, 1 dark general, 8 hr and tons of skill feeders. So with the double event rewards I actually made a decent profit. I guess being in a high ranked order isnt always the best bet.

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  16. So you lucked out on the silver coins. All I got was a couple of high rares, a lot of rares, high normals and even normals. And the high rares will probably sell for 5hp max. Most of the players I know have the same problem. Check in your own order and see how many players got DQ's or SR's.

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  17. Lucarda what would u think is the best qualities for an order? I've gotten tired of my old order and quite a few of us are going to set up a new order. So far we've come out with perfect democracy with a voting system on an external forum, minimum hp or cw for each event, 24/7 active order leaders (switching between 2) and a good communication app. What would u recommend further as a member of an order yourself? Thanks. Other people are also welcome to express your opinions. I'm not a power hungry guy and i would certainly try to improve my order

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    1. Decide what your goal is. Do you want to make the most profit during HW or rank the highest. Get everybody on board so you maintain the members you have while gathering new ones

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    2. Yeah i think we'd sfay in the 1000 or top 1000 s easily and rock up to top 150 when we hv accumulated enough hp. Would this ve profitable?

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  18. I'm glad I spent almost no hp on this war, but I got Tristan, Michael (which I traded for a Dark general ^_^), and demonic knight from scp. Then bought a bunch of eos (10) for 2-4 hp, which I believe will end up at about 6-8 hp in about 1-2, weeks maybe even more if people realize that she is essentially marysys who is about 15 hp right now. Overall I feel that events in this game are fun to play when you don't spend anything more than personals on them, and playing this game like an auction house is actually kind of funner than taking the events seriously to me.

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  19. I must have the worst luck on the planet with you all that got decent cards from the CP. I had almost 200 silver coins and got one cheap HR that goes for 2 HP on bazaar, 2 rares, some Angel Queens, and then feeders. I've wasted so much HP on this war with no return I think I will be done with this game. If RoB changes things so that the return and rewards of playing the game is actually worthwhile, then I'll return. However, right now, it's just disappointing to play. :(

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  20. I definitely agree that the prizes should be better based on how people are spending their HPs and there should be some higher rarity/quality cards at the lower ranks to make it more rewarding.

    However, aside from giving mobage feedback (lots of it, and definitely shoving it down their throats), the next best thing to do I think is to adapt. If its fun to engage in war, why not give yourself new objectives that are not limited to ranking (since that is not lucrative). For example, in my order, we only spent around 10-20 HP each and had a great time.

    Our main strategy involved trying to beat opposing orders without using more than 1 hp to bring down the wall (there were normally about 10 of us active and our decks only dealt about 3-4k damage so 1 hp was necessary) and then doing one full force attack each. This meant spending 2hp per war at most and only if we noticed the opposing orders weren't going crazy with the spending. We were successful thanks to the fact that we were organized and had a plan and more active members. And, let me tell you, winning against notably higher level orders without spending more than a couple of HPs feels really good.

    Obviously this only led to no more than a 1,500 ranking and close to 20,000 individual ranking, but we played many exciting wars and made a decent profit (for our level), specially from the silver coins and due to not spending HPs.

    In the case of a high level order you can just do the bazaar thing to get a profit from the war, and in addition play the war by giving yourselves imposed limits and trying to do the best you can with them. Its fun and exciting, and when you feel like it you can always just let go a few full force attacks if you want, just to feel better.

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  21. Replies
    1. Gabo thats a good strategy. However i suppose ur just lucky. Had u encountered our order or the ordrrs we faced, there are four to five of us doing 3x hp ff atks every war. Problem is, we don't win them. We're in the 1.2k range but we have once stood uo to an order and got 130k hw pys but still lost.

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    2. Oh, we lost plenty of wars, but we started one as soon as the last one finished. If it was unwinable because the oposing order was clearly ready to spend their HPs, we would just recharge and end up fully charged for the next one (gaining silver coins and a few points along the way). The loss doesn't affect your scores and its only a minus if they kill the wall, which is relatively cheap to rebuild.
      We fought lots and lots and lots of wars and by law of numbers we were bound to find a bunch that had inactive or unorganized members or just reluctant to spend their HPs. This also meant we got lots of silver coins, which increased the probabilities of opening up cool cards, without the large HP expenditure. We ended up with 25 wins, and it should have been more but I mistakenly thought walls built during a Holy War would not be used until the next Holy War... but it was until the next Holy Battle! Once I figured that out it was a bit late to get to the 30 wins.

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  22. I didnt really like this war. though this was my 3 time ever being in one. But my order i think ranked between 2000-2400 with 30wins with 12 members. we all roughly spent 40-50hp. so i dont think we did to bad. Did get ssr raphealla from silver going to hold on to her lest till after this next event(which seem interesting using 10 cards!)hoping her price improves! feel market really low for her right now.

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    1. hmm wanna join my new order? it just set up but with some members we think we could get top 1000

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  23. Well, I knew we left our top 100 order for a reason. We are probably one of the only orders to get 50 wins. We knew that our old order would mindlessly dump HP and want us to do the same so we went back to create our old order and with 6 actives, we went 50-15. We ranked in the top 1500 but we didn't care, this was a decision we made as an order. Like Lucarda pointed out, we would have to spend 1,000 HP each to make the top 150 and the rewards are garbage. We are much happier with 2 Diana for the 60 HP I sold. This HW was a joke, and was only meant to make people spend more HP than they would have ever considered before. A 3x HP full force button??? Yeah ok... Some of the losses we had were hilarious!!! Guys with unfinished rare decks would get a chain going against the one inactive (who is already booted) and then launch their garbage skill while robotically tapping the full force button and we lose. Our full SS rare and up decks lose. Hahahaha, Holy Wars is a joke now. With my Raph pull, Raph purchase and 2 Shenlong purchases during HW; I'm pretty sure I'm going to come out ahead at least 200 HP which will only end up being more with the amount of patience I show.

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  24. I know this is off topic but do you have a suggestion box we can submit to to have you cover certain topics?

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    1. Naw, I don't really run a suggestion box but I read all comments so if you post a request there and there seems to be a lot of support behind it, I normally will.

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