Wednesday, November 7, 2012

Skilling Up Part 2

Continued from Skill Up Part 1

 Skilling high rarity cards poses an interesting predicament. That being that technically you can purchase HR for 1HP on a regular basis, either treasure HR or event HR. Also that you can purchase rares for 1CW each if you look around. But in both cases it is a pain to accumulate large numbers of rares or HR given the limitations of Bazaar tickets. Finally, by purchasing Skilled High Normals you get to purchase a rare for roughly the price of  .4 HP per rare (which is what I consider roughly the cost of one CW) but you can attain them through feeder service. Either way, because of this my math on pricing will be done at the rate of 4HP per 9 Rares. If I use High Rares I will be doing them at the approximate price of 9HP per 9 High Rares.

*SIDENOTE* All my math is done assuming the use of 9 cards, in a vast majority of cases it is beneficial to use 10 cards, especially near the end. The reason for using 9 cards is because in feeder service you are normally only attaining 9 and most people skilling up will just use them instead of waiting for a 10th card.

*SIDENOTE* Thanks to Jean-Baptiste for linking chart and everybody who mentioned skilled cards increase chance of increase. Damn you all as well because it just gives me extra work.

Skilling an SSR (SR evolved into SSR)


Lvl 1-2: 9 Rares yielding 72% chance to skill up - 28% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 4-8HP.

Lvl 2-3: 9 Rares yielding 48% chance to skill up - 52% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 8-12HP

Lvl 3-4: 9 Rares yielding 36% chance to skill up - 64% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 16-20HP

Lvl 4-5: 9 Rares yielding 28% chance to skill up - 72% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 16-20HP

Lvl 5-6: 9 Rares yielding 24% chance to skill up - 76% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 20-24HP


Lvl 6-7: 9 Rares yielding 20% chance to skill up - 80% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 24-28HP


Lvl 7-8: 9 Rares yielding 18% chance to skill up - 82% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 24-28HP.


Lvl 8-9: 9 Rares yielding 16% chance to skill up - 84% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 28-32HP


Lvl 9-10: 9 Rares yielding 14% chance to skill up - 86% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 28-32HP


Final rough price is around 190ish HP on average but can really increase heavily during the last three levels. During this time be sure to pepper in that 10th card. It still isn't worth it as far as I can tell to use HR at this point. The reason is that using it from 8-9 for example would be roughly 30% chance of success but would cost 10HP each attempt. You'll notice at that pricing it's starting to level out on price per percentage, but its close and a string of bad luck at 10HP per pop adds up fast.

Skilling a Legend (SSR evolved into Legend)


Lvl 1-2: 9 High Rares yielding 72% chance to skill up -  28% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 9-18HP

Lvl 2-3: 9 High Rares yielding 48% chance to skill up - 52% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 18-27HP

Lvl 3-4: 9 High Rares yielding 36% chance to skill up - 64% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 36-45HP

Lvl 4-5: 9 High Rares yielding 28% chance to skill up - 72% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 36-45HP

Lvl 5-6: 9 High Rares yielding 24% chance to skill up - 76% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 45-54HP

Lvl 6-7: 9 High Rares yielding 20% chance to skill up - 80% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 54-63HP

Lvl 7-8: 9 High Rares yielding 18% chance to skill up - 82% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 54-63HP

Lvl 8-9: 9 High Rares yielding 16% chance to skill up - 84% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 63-72HP

Lvl 9-10: 9 High Rares yielding 14% chance to skill up - 86% chance you will have to try again. Rough Price 63-72HP

Final rough price is about 420HP to max it. Before I went through this step by step I really didn't think I'd come to the conclusion that Devil Queens are way overpriced, but lo and behold. Devil Queens currently running for 130HP each which is absurd. That means that using a Devil Queen mimics the cost of my worse case scenarios using High Rares. Devil Queens should be 50HP each.

Unfortunately there is a time variable. Purchasing enough HR given the limited number of bazaar tickets would take some time. Devil Queens can be purchased much more easily and quickly.

*FINAL THOUGHTS* Overall I hate the topic of skill enhancement. I find it boring and too uncontrolled to be completely accurate with. Since it deals with percentages I can say that it will cost 72HP to level from 9-10 on a legend card but it could just as easily end up taking 50 attempts and then I get some angry person spouting on how I don't know what I'm talking about. I avoided this topic because it is based quite a bit around luck and only did this post because a few people asked for it. Do NOT expect future posts on skill enhancement unless something new and interesting occurs.

24 comments:

  1. I've read most of the posts at this point. I like the game ROB, unfortunately I came in late I've only been playing for 22 days today. I made a mistake early on and built a card above my level costing me time and resources, and I don't know if I'll be able to get it out later when I want too.

    I've only ever been in one Order so I don't really know how it's supposed to go. My order does not seem organized, but maybe its just the nature of all orders. We do not have a forum outside of the game, and it seems like most of the players in the order don't do a whole lot. For instance I might post on the order page once a day or more asking questions or generally talking about what to do next and most of the time people don't respond.

    In my evaluation one day of playing Rob is worth about 10 HP, so you're talking 120 to 150 days of playing before you've built a 5 ifrit atk deck or comparable. I do not like the Bazaar rules as it significantly disadvantages intelligent traders. If I could trade unlimited volume I could make many more HP per day.

    My Second complaint about game play is that there is very limited information available about what is actually happening in the game. I still can't find anything on how battle points are actually calculated. Most days I earn about 1500 just by using my AP when it's high enough for my deck, but it seems arbitrary to me how the number of points I get from that are calculated.

    I've drifted-the main reason for my post is I would really like to integrate into a more organized order before the next (my first) HW. I don't know how valuable my deck is at this point, but I anticipate in the neighborhood of 60K base atk and 50K base defense in another 2 weeks.

    As a note I am exceptional with Excel and have made some useful sheets for tracking cards and quick reference guides for checking how a card was evolved. It also does a decent job of telling you you actual atk points based on procs and whatnot. I can't imagine I'm not worth a second look by a more decent Order.

    Anyways let me know if you have any thoughts on any of this of have any questions before responding.

    Thanks

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    1. Read Duaxis' post below for a lot of the information. The key thing I want to reinforce that he says is don't spend all your HP on new cards, but instead use it to gain additional HP.

      It's harder to go from 1-50HP than it is to go from 50-100. As such using your HP to trade intelligently is most important.

      On the order front, I will note you will need the ability to attack 3 times normally to gain an effective order. After that I will note that most orders will ignore base atk/defense stats if you tell them straight up how much HP you are willing to spend on the next HW. I.e. I would take somebody spending 100HP with your stats vs somebody spending 40HP with 2x your stats.

      As for people not in your order posting. Duaxis will note that I virtually never post or say anything in forum or line. This is primarily because I will just pound out huge amounts of HP during HW to show my presence. So don't take lack of verbal participation as lack of participation. Your order might be one that stays dormant until Holy Wars. If they perform very poorly during HW I would say to look for better options. I use HW as my determiner of all Orders ability.

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    2. tis true. he is a ghost... lol but everyone knows him and everyone knows he will be around in HW...ive asked lol (on a side note i should be able to go about 200 hp in this hw and i should achieve my 3 attacks per before the next hw...pulled off this event to just quest in normals for stat points...it will be close but I think i can do it... need 140 more atk pwr for 3 per.)

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    3. on a side note since your not in line lol, we are going top 100 this next hw, smyg removed some deadweight and is making others focus on their decks to improve. just thought id bring you in the loop of what is going on in the order...mr ghost

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    4. If you guys need another player, I may very well be looking based on next hw. Me and three others spent 60 each last hw and didnt even get in top 1000 thanks to some dead weight. If things don't drastically improve we will be moving, all daily top 2500 players.

      My decks.

      Fox Spirit
      Valk
      Valk
      Ifrit
      Ifrit

      Apsara
      Apsara
      Apsara
      shield angel
      shield angel

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    5. Yeah, I'm boosting my defense deck so when I start blowing out HP the other team can't just purely farm me for points. It happened a couple times and it annoys the crap out of me.

      I'll be down to only 400 or so HP though on the main account though :(

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  2. if you have only been playing 22 days you seem like your on the right track...although for only playing 22 days you should be focused on just obtaining hp right now...the more hp you have the more cards you will be able to afford in higher rarity.

    I dont mean this as in as soon as you have that hp to buy a card. i mean that having more hp allows you to buy cheap cards you see in the bazaar and be able to re sell them for a higher ammount, thus earning a higher hp per trade.

    once you have enough hp to purchase a full deck (usually want to get around 80k base attack) and 100 or so hp left over is the time you should really focus on finding a legit deck/order. def wont matter much once you get into a higher order. mainly because most people will best any def deck you can afford (unless your focusing on def leader).

    the next biggest thing is you want to make sure that you have sufficient attack power, only having 1 attack per hp is a waste and you will usually spend more than what you earn in rewards. most orders will probably require a minimum of 2 and probably 3 attacks per hp.

    at 3 attacks per hp you should start to build a decent def deck so not just any order can farm you in a holy war. as of right now i have a man account that has 120 stam 260 atk power and only 44 def power. with a base attack of 87021.

    my next best suggestion is if you can, is to open a second account and make it a feeder account with 10 def around 60 atk and the rest into stamina. this will help you fund your deck when you are ready to enhance and evolve not to mention this will be the main account you will want to use during a cure water event (high stam = more questing per cw) this account can also double as a feeder account (questing and obtaining skilled high normals to sell to other members) 9 skilled hn = 1 to 2 hp depending on the person buying. these are just a few things to look at. and im sure that lucarda might have a better suggestion or add onto this one. hope it helps.

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  3. Sometimes I see just stupid trades on the bazaar and I buy them, but I have been wrong up to this point in allocating my stats and HP expenditures. I don't know how to create anther account on my phone and it looks like their are limitations to unregistered accounts in the trading or gifting markets. All that said I could probably put a stam account on my wifes phone, build it up to 600 Stam and only play it in the morning and at night. For now, I have wrongly invested in developing a 5-5 High Priestess. Pretty god stats, but a crappy skill, and I really don't know what it's worth. I Probably have say 40 HP in the build, so if I could get that out and cut my losses I probably would. With the Bazaar features its hard to tell what they are actually selling for. I mean you can see what they are listed for, but who knows if people are paying that, or you can see what they sold for, but have no idea of what the cards stats/evo was.

    I read about trading cards for move valuable cards. That seems to me the easiest way to increase the value of what you have, but I don't have a good feel yet for the overall value of cards. I started making a list of what I have bought and sold various cards for, but there truly are so many its difficult to know where the deals are and what a reasonable step up is for someone to make. For instance I bought a War Tiger behreng for One HP because I know the card is worth more than that, but I have no idea what I can get for that same card in a card-card trade. I a go to build tree that lists the stepping stones. It also seems like for lower level cards you can enhance them a little bit and people will pay more for them even though that enhancement really didn't cost you anything.

    In regards to my Order this is the kind of help I am looking for in the game at this point and I can't get any of these questions answered by them. I don't know if that means that they are not informed on how this stuff works or uninterested in helping someone out.

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    1. Mostly uninterested I'd wager. During HW though you'll be able to tell who's active and who isn't and whether or not its an order you want to stay in.

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  4. Maybe I missed this, but what about skilling up a card to use as a feeder. For example, evolve 4 HN into Rares. Skill those rares to level 5 or so, and then use those rares to enhance a SR or SSR. Have you done the math on this as well?

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    1. from what ive heard from other people so im 100% sure on this. a card with sl 10 will have the same effect as a card with sl 1...the only difference you will see in skilling up is the rarity of the card. higher rarity = better chance for skill level.

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    2. What Duaxis says is true. The skill level of the card doesn't matter, only the rarity.

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    3. I just saw this post. This is not true. A higher skill level card give a much higher % when used as feeder to skill up another card. This is true for all rarity levels.

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    4. I do not agree...the skill level of a feeder does matter,not only the rarity... i.e:on a SSR sk4 , a rare feeder sk1 gives about 3.5% to enhance your SSR to skill 5 (so 10 will do 35%), a rare feeder sk5 gives about 9.6% (so 10 will do 96%)...i've tried and it works...found this on the net,very usefull,hope it can help :
      http://www.vuice.com/images/RoB-Skill-Boosting-Chart.png
      It's my first comment on this blog,really want to say thank you for this great blog,been using it since my beginning on Rob,you're doing great Lucarda,thanks again ;)
      Jb

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    5. @ Andy Luo , you've been faster than I ^^

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    6. Hm. Seems I've been doing it wrong.

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  5. when i do skill up for level 7 and up, I do 100%. This is completely controlled then. You know how much you are gonna pay up, and you know you will get a skill up for sure. Cost wise sometimes you're better off (since you can go 20+ times for each of the last few levels and not get anything), and sometimes ur worse off. People who get sk 10 with skilled HN on their 1st shot will scream at me but that is an outlier which is totally excluded from any calculation.

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    1. You always want to aim for 100% unfortunately the only way to do that is with Devil Queens. Devil Queens at 120HP per mean you are spending 240HP on a skill up at that high of a level.

      It is highly improbable to even have the skill up cost 150HP making that method, although more controlled, more expensive.

      The major advantage to DQ as a card is you can purchase several of them without worrying about bazaar tickets, and sometimes you can't find HR for 1HP (I normally can). If you are paying 2HP per HR it starts to become more reasonable to purchase devil queens.

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    2. I havent done Legend skill up. but for SSR and below you can achieve 100% w/o DQ's costs. I buy treasure HR with skill levels. I'm currently skilling my claymaid and I just need 10 HR sk 3 to hit 100% to go from level 7 to 8. You can get 1 HR sk 3 for 3HP, so final cost is 30 hp. It will go up as you'll need higher skill level HR feeders but you will not reach 240HP anytime soon. Yes tickets is a concern but I assumed people have multiple feeder accounts.

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    3. This comment has been removed by the author.

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    4. Hm. I have never tried this. I'll have to give it a shot it seems.

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  6. Replies
    1. my previous post said im 100% sure lol it was meant to be im NOT 100% sure lol. and seems like i was wrong. glad someone else knew. sorry for the mix up lol

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    2. Yeah, I always thought it was based purely on card rarity since obviously card XP had no bearing. Oh well, live and learn. It really only effects SSR/Legend and the last 3 levels of SR.

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