Saturday, July 14, 2012

4-6 vs 6-10 Evolutions

The descriptions of these two evolutions and how to attain them can be found on the evolution page for those who don't know.

A 4-6 Evolution is a really common evolution being sold. It's final stats result in 96.629% of total potential power (8-14).

A 6-10 Evolution is a really common evolution as well. It's final stats result in 99.625% of total potential power (8-14).

There is only a 3% difference between these two evolutions. Because of the minor stat difference people are opting to constantly make 4-6 Evolutions, especially for cards that are expensive.

An example of this is Nightmare. A 4-6 Nightmare costs about 170HP to create between the cards and enhancements. A 6-10 Nightmare costs about 255HP to create between the cards and enhancement. The end result is a 470 point difference in attack. Most people can't justify an 85HP difference for the 470 attack power.

The difference between Sutekh and Cerberus is a 5% difference in total stats. This results in a 400+ difference in HP cost between these two cards, each. At a 4-6 Evolution the difference in HP between these two cards is 1600HP. For 5% total stats.

So, if it's not worth it to create a 6-10 evolution of a card why are there so many 6 card evolution of Rare cards? It's because they are cheap to make. And people go with the cheaper route. The fact is people use 3% difference as an excuse not to do a 6-10 because they are too impatient to do it the right way.

If a card is low value, I see no issue in not maxing it. But if a card is high value, like Nightmare, Claymore Maid, Apsara, etc. I prefer to see them created into proper 6-6 or 6-10 evolutions. The cards are simply too rare to be permanently making inferior.

It's like in every MMO I ever played. There are people who are High Tier players who aim for the best gear, the best rotations, the best specializations, and then there are players who are accepting of mediocrity.

So, when you are wondering whether to take your Lancelot and do a 4max evolution or a 6max evolution you should ask yourself, what kind of player are you? Because there's no devolving.


  1. -claps- I get sick of seeing all the 4-0/4-4s or similar all over the place. Hopefully someone listens to this post.

  2. 'm from the demon realm and I was wondering:
    Can demons be good defence leaders?

    I currently have 5 luci's (68k ATK using 100PWR) and working on my defence deck with the cards you suggested in your blog (80k DEF using 117PWR).

    I'm considering becoming a DEF leader with 150+ DEF Power(as I believe that 5 luci will take out the majority of people.

    I have approximately 400 stat points if I remove my fellows.

    So my questions are:
    1) Can demons be good defence leaders?
    2) Can demons be good defence leaders late/end game?
    3) Would 80K DEF be sufficient?
    4) Would you choose either 200/200 or 250/150 for stats (ATK/DEF)
    5) 1 Luci = 13.6ATK. If I get those 6-max DEF cards on your blog, Should I swap any of the Luci's for one of them?

  3. 1) Demons can be good defense leaders but its much more expensive than it is for other alignments. Humans have Paladins, Lancelot, and King Arthur. Gods have Apsara (stupidly amazing). Demons have Wraith (as good as paladin), but afterward demons don't get another GOOD defensive card until Medusa (Currently the best defensive card in game I believe)

    2) Yes again. 3 wraiths and 2 Chimaera would be very difficult to deal with. Pepper in Deaths in the Chimaera spot and a Medusa at top you have a powerful deck. I will note though that a God stacking 5 Apsaras has it cheaper with more power.

    3) Depends on the rank your order is aiming for. I find that defense helps in limiting their points but overall what counts in holy wars is having very active and powerful members. But a good defense leader will help with the close matches.

    4) If you plan to be a defense leader I would say have a minimum of 200. Remember, you lose 10pts every time somebody attacks with 50pt attack deck. I could attack you 6 times with 50pt attacks and leave you open for defeat with only 150pts.

    5) Wraith is superior in every way. So is Chimaera. Lucy only has 10k def. Her debuff doesn't make up for 5k defense and a 13% buff to defense. Lucy is a bad defense card for a high rare deck, and an acceptable one for a Rare Deck.

  4. I see nothing wrong with 4-6 when you are a budget player. Calling a player mediocre because they don't have the time or money to invest in an overpriced 6-10 isn't fair. I can get more, and better, cards in real paper card game and have the fluidity to change the game type based on who I'm playing with. RoB just fills time on the bus and waiting for the real life, real card, players to get over to the house.

    That said, I'm sick to death of anything less than 4-6. I'm dirt poor but manage to have all my cards at least 4-6. I just can't justify 3% for hundreds more HP when I can take that same HP and put it towards having two 4-6 instead of one 6-10 or 8-14.

    1. I don't support 8-14s. They are .38 difference in power. The difference between a 4-6 and 6-10 is almost 10x that.

      A 3% decrease in damage in most MMOs is the difference between downing a boss and failing.

      Don't forget you'll be able to get out of a card in the future what you put into it. If you're buying cards outright, sure buy a 4-6, you can get them dirt cheap because the people who made them regret making them. 6-10s hold their value.

      But when you are making your own card from scratch, the player may not be mediocre, but the card is. Do you know how many 4-0 High Rares there are? Very few, I would say there are as many 4-0 High Rares on the market as there are 8-14s. Then there are several 6max evos, and several 4max evos. That means the average card is something like a 6-2. Meaning any card below a 6-2 is below average, mediocre.

    2. This comment has been removed by the author.

    3. His point is that when hp is expensive and you are playing for a budget it's not worth it. If you know your cards, a loss of 15% is going to be made up well in skill boosts. That will take you a long way. Sure, the extra 15% will help even more, but again it's not worth it on a budget. Your points I'm not sure about, but I'm sure you did your homework. I'll admit it went a little off topic tho.

  5. Meh, life's too short to agonise over a virtual card game. I'm happy to 4-4 my rares as that's all the amount of time (and virtual currency) i'm, prepared to invest.

    Then again, I guess it depends where your priorities lie. Mine's having a life.

  6. Great post.
    I understand your point but the example you used is rather poor. Sutekh has a great hit to all effect. But on the other hand, Cerberus has massive boost to not just demon atk but also def. That's freaking awesome and i bet most of the cost is a justification for the effect rather than the 5% extra stats.

    6-10 is a great choice for card building but it's probably not the most cost efficient. I know that we all have an impulse to create the best and most awesome deck. But as all things in life, there will be a cost associated with it and we need to consider carefully.

    Allow me to propose an example. Let's look at ifrit and agni. They are similar in every ways. 6-10 ifrit is 15364 and 4-6 ifrit is 14902 with a difference of 462. 6-10 agni is 11576 and 4-6 agni is 11228 with a difference of 348. At the cost of 30 hp per ifrit and 2 hp per rare, the extra hp we spend for 6-10 ifrit gives us 7.7 atk/hp while the extra cost for agni will be at 87 atk/hp.

    The rate of return for hp cost vs atk gain for rare is more than 10 times greater than hr. it's the most bang for the buck and that's why so many people choose 6-10 for rares.

    With the saving of 60hp, we can easily afford a ff titan which is more than 3000 atk than the most powerful god rare. The point is 4-6 is by no mean a bad evo. it is just how you look at the game.

    1. I use the example completely ignoring buffs since there isn't an SR counterpart equal to Cerberus. Either way the example stands, people pay significantly more no matter what for the equivalent counterparts. I could have also used SR Lancelot vs SSR King Arthur. Small increases in stats for mammoth increases in price. It's the cost of top tier gaming.

      That's generally why I don't recommend doing a 6-10 unless the card is powerful and possibly an endgame card. For example, Claymore Maid gives a better attack than most SRs at a portion of the cost. I see no reason not to do a 6-10 on her given that the player will actually be using her until SSR.

      6-10 for rares I consider to be stupidly overpaying. It's 2HP per card at most and 5HP per max. I've done the math on a different response but for the price in rupies and feeders of doing a 6-10 rare a player will cost a player 30HP in feeders and rupies on a card that's easily replaceable. I only do 6-2 Evos on rares.

      Finally, yes, 4-6 isn't a BAD evolution. It's a horribly average evolution. I personally don't create 4-6 Evolutions but I've purchased them at stupidly low prices because they don't hold value. You're never buying cards you're always investing in them and 6-10s go a lot faster and for a LOT more than 4-6s.

  7. What do you think about 5 card evos? I'm currently working on the 5 great spirits in my possession and I'm not sure if I should buy another one to do a 6 card evo or sell one and do a 4-7 or just stick with what I have.

  8. hr and lower use 6-10, all sr and above should always always always be 4-7, for example on the market today i can buy a lance for 140 x 4 = 560, if i make a 6-10 it will cost me 840, is that 500def worth the 280hp, no it definitely is not, would that 280 hp be better used investing in ur next card? lets be serious i wouldnt sell my lancelot and have a hole in my deck so i could buy a king arthur i would buy the ka first than slowly evo and than replace selling my lancelot at the very end of the process... so that 280hp has already bought you more the 60% of 1 base ka. thats my outlook on things, look me up in game at Garrman3, support me and ill attack you so u can see my deck lol i think it will convince many of you that my philosophy works...

    1. Post was up before bazaar. During that time 6max maintained their value much better than 4max.

  9. Lets talk about this the right way. Fox Spirit cost 120-130 hp a piece x 4 equal 500 hp having a 20.2k attack which is a decent attack. 6-11 Fox Spirit 120-130 hp x 5 750 hp card for a 20.8k card thinking that you have 5 Fox Spirit(in this case) thats a 3k + attack base. Can you justifie a 1,250 hp spend for a 3k more base attack? On top of that the RoB economy is horrible ever since the bazzar was activated. People make 6-11 only on cheap cards or cards that you will NEVER change. Now that we have stated the obvious calling a player mediocre is fair for not wasting 1.25k? Also I play a lot of MMO games n you're statement was false almost no ppl is willing to spend a ton of money for a slight more that just been a stupid life wasting NOOb. Thank you have a good day ^^

    1. Nice well thought out and positive. I especially liked the part where you targeted a post that was up before Bazaar existed and cards maintained their value and a 6-10 held it way better.

      By the way, new HR cards are out, you should go through and be a dick on my HR posts as well.

    2. This was loltastic. Lucarda, you are a mighty troll slayer.

      darkruler, please seek out spell check. C'mon man...

      Thank you have a good day. bahahaha