Tuesday, July 3, 2012

Best R/HR Demon Decks

There is a specific best Attack/Defense decks for each alignment. These set ups that will be listed are based on 6-2 evolutions for Rares, and 6max evolutions for High Rare on up.

Rare card Demon Attack Deck:

Leader: Succubus - 11.7k attack - Med Boost to Demons Attack
Second: Demonic Slave - 12.4 attack - Med Boost to Attack (all)
Third: Demonic Slave - 12.4 attack - Med Boost to Attack (all)
Fourth: Elder Dragon - 12.6k attack - Med Hit to Foes Gods Defense
Fifth: Elder Dragon - 12.6k attack - Med Hit to Foes Gods Defense

Demonic slave serves as a supportive buff and a higher base damage. Overall, this set up increases the chance to get both a succubus and slave proc while offering high base damage as well.

Rare card Demon Defense Deck:

Leader: Eligos - 12.2k Defense - Med Boost to Gods/Demons Defense
Second: Jack-o-Lantern - 12.5k Defense - Med Boost to Defense (all)
Third: Jack-o-Lantern - 12.5k Defense - Med Boost to Defense (all)
Fourth: Manticore - 12.7k Defense - Med Hit to Foes Demons Attack
Fifth: Manticore - 12.7k Defensse - Med Hit to Foes Demons Attack

Scorpio can easily be subbed into Manticore's spot. Also if you have a destroyer golem it would be considered better but that card very rarely makes it onto the market since it was for an event and a lot of people got rid of theirs by now. If you can pick one up cheap use Destroy Golem in the last two spots. Eligos is placed in the lead spot for the stronger buff and thereby increase chances of Jack procing.

High Rare card Demon Attack Deck:

Leader: Nightmare - 15.5k Attack - Big Big Boost to Demons Attack
Second: Mad Hatter - 17.9k Attack - Big Big Boost to Gods/Demons Attack
Third: Demonic Knight - 17.6k Attack - Big Big Boost to Gods/Demons Attack
Fourth: Trow Elf - 19.6k Attack - Big Boost to Gods Attack
Fifth: Trow Elf - 19.6k Attack - Big Boost to Gods Attack

There are actual a couple combinations that all come out so close it's just stupid. I choose this one based on price. Nightmares have come down to low enough that using Dragonewt would be silly. Pan in the lead spot is very viable as well and in fact comes out about 3% ahead of this, I just prefer NM because I'm stubborn.

A final build that is also very viable is to substitute Trows for Dragonewts for the additional chances at procing a useful buff. Although in most cases this will end up weaker, the extra chance at a 3rd proc might be worth it for some people.

High Rare Demon Defense Deck:

Leader: Wraith - 15k Defense - Big Boost to Demons Def
Second: Marsyas - 17.5k Defense - Big Boost to God/Demon Defense
Third: Marsyas - 17.5k Defense - Big Boost to God/Demon Defense
Fourth: Bloody Mistress - 18.5k Defense - Big Boost to Defense (All)
Fifth: Bloody Mistress - 18.5k Defense - Big Boost to Defense (All)

This was a head scratcher for me. There are actually couple more set ups that work well here. One of which is to use Marsyas, Xuanwu, Xuanwu, Mistress, Mistress. This ensures an astoundingly high base damage, a resistance to realm specific debuffs, and a high chance of three procs going off.

Another possible set up is to use one Wraith and four BM and only count on the two buffs going off. In a situation where two buffs go off, this actually beats the recommended one up top. I just can't resist the extra shot at that third buff.

79 comments:

  1. Would lucy fit for the high rare defense?

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    1. I currently use Lucy in my HR defense. I use her because I primarily focus on my offense. Realistically, she has no place in a High Rare Defense deck, but she is superior to the Rare Defense deck.

      Simpler terms. She's a cheap and effective way to get a decent defense going, but you should be replacing her with wraiths as soon as you can. Luci gives a 10% debuff, wraiths give a 13% buff and have 5k more def.

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  2. i think you have an error in your HR defense although it doesn's make much difference if you would be using that deck layout.

    chimera ha a big hit to foe's demons ATK not Man Def

    just to inform

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    1. Haha, thanks for picking that up. Corrected.

      Delete
  3. Question - why not manticore for defence deck? Doesn't it have higher defence than skeleton knight?

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    1. Ah, that's easy. I forgot about the existence of that card. It doesn't show up on the Card Evolution Spreadsheet I looked at so it never really came to mind. Yes Manticore would be a better option.

      Also, while looking at the math on everything there is a fair argument that 3 Manticores would be best. A debuff from Melusine would equal 2750 against somebody with 55k offense, two of them would almost be sure to trigger. Manticores 2300 increase over Melusine all the time plus the debuff on demon attackers probably makes it a better option. I'll update it when I have time.

      Delete
  4. Is it not recommendable to skip Succubus and go straight to Camulia?

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    1. Camulia is a very usable card and to many of my friends I have told them to use HR treasure cards instead of Rares because of the cost associated with them. Camulia is a very good treasure rare and inexpensive and totally worth it, but she's a high rare.

      That being said, labeled the section as rares. Its the same reason that technically they could be stacking Lucies as rares but because they are slightly more difficult to get than a normal rare, I keep them from the process.

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    2. Camulia in my opinion is an evo rare. :D

      Delete
  5. Why did you take the Arch Daemons out?

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    1. My math was bad initially for a couple reasons. I actually need to update my other best decks to reflect it. Honestly, I had a bit of a hard on for hits to defense cards that kind of blinded me. In order for a debuff to be effective all the time it needs to target (ALL), an (ALL) modifier means a BIG is only 8% instead of 13% that a (TYPE) offers. On top of this, only the first debuff hits for full effect, the second one hits for 8% off the diminished number.

      The math: 75 Defense + 8% Debuff = 69k + 8% debuff = 63.5 + 8% debuff = 58.5 This is a 16.5k difference

      Nightmares buff (13%) STACKING (for the sake of math we'll say a 75k offense).
      75k offense + 13% buff = 84.75 + 13% buff = 95.76 + 13% buff = 108.2 this is a 33k difference.

      Archdaemon is still a really solid card, hence its solid price of 35HP. But nightmare is better.

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    2. 5 clay maids beat 3 nm 2 trow for To decks? I'm demon

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    3. Generally yes. But it won't beat 1NM, 2 Dragonewts, and 2 Trow since you're demon.

      Delete
  6. Hi, just want to clarify this: how much does Dark Knight Luciella debuff?

    The chart you have under "Card skills" doesn't have the stats for "[Big] or [Great] hit to ATK/DEF (ALL)".

    I only see Massive which is 10%, going by the pattern, does that mean Luci only does 8% debuff unenhanced?

    Please enlighten me lol.

    Oh and nice site btw, helped me out quite a bit. Thanks, keep it up!

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    Replies
    1. 5% is her debuff. It's awful. I need to update the chart. The only reason it's remotely useful is it is 5% all the time no matter the deck its in vs something that is only useful sometimes.

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    2. 5%? Where did you get this info? I thought it was 10% according here:

      http://wiki.rageofbahamut.com/Boosts

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    3. That site has been updated recently (the 8th, right around when mina came out ironically). It previously posted 5% that's why the 10% is bolded.

      Personally I believe the information is wrong on their site currently and being a wiki somebody adjusted to to artificially inflate lucy value now that they're discontinued, hence the update right when Mina came out and Lucy was discontinued.

      It would make no sense for a "great boost to attack/defense Demon", to be the same value as a "great boost to attack/defense (ALL)".

      Delete
  7. First of all took your advice on 3x Wraith and 2x Chimera and I was only beaten outright once during HW! Thank you!
    My question now is where do I go from here? The real heavy hitters can still get through.

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    1. If you really want to focus on defense, I would recommend two deaths to swap out as your wing cards instead of the chimera. Past that it starts to get hard for demon players, but save heavily for Medusa's for the top three cards. Each Medusa is about 700-800HP.

      Delete
  8. Great decks, but...
    You shouldn't stop at High Rares. I finished those already, I need to go to SRs now. Keep the good stuff going!

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  9. I was wondering, if Bloody Mistress can replace the Wraiths considering that they have more defense than the Wraiths.

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    1. 15k vs 18k defense. 13% buff vs 8% buff.

      Lets just say 5 of each
      Wraith 75k defense * 1.13 *1.13 *1.13 = 108k
      Bloody 90K defense * 1.08 *1.08 *1.08 = 113k

      Bloody wins so it seems to make sense at first glance. Now lets try assuming that wraiths are only used in the top three spots and given two wing cards (the way it would normally go).

      3 Wraiths/Chimaera deck
      79k defense *1.13*1.13*1.13 = 113.9k

      Wraiths win in the first three spots. The only thing I would actually change now is that Chimaera is now virtually worthless as a wing card because Bloody Mistress took its spot as the highest defense HR wing card. The nice part about using Mistress in the last two spots is if she triggers instead of one of the top 3, the buff isn't completely worthless.

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    2. After looking into it more you can stack 4 Bloody Mistresses for a better result on average. It won't peak like 3 Wraiths but it will yield more consistent results.

      Honestly though based on current cost of BM deck, go Apsaras.

      Delete
  10. Hi, I'd also like to say that 6-2 Skeleton Knights aren't actually 12.6k def like the wiki says, they're actually 11286 def. I only found that out after getting a dozen of them, so if ever you're making a rare def deck, go for manticores as wing cards, around 12.7k def on them.

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    1. Guh, I hate it when multiple resources are incorrect. I'll fix it to show manticores. Needs to be fixed anyway for the HR defense deck.

      Delete
    2. Its not so bad. Great guides btw, me and a few friends started out by reading these.

      Unfortunately, I read these before revisions, so I have 3 6-2 skull riders and these 2 6-2 skel knights. Doesn't really impact me so much, since I'll slowly make my way into HRs over the next few months, and I win nearly every time I atk/def anyway.

      Again, thanks for the guides :)

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    3. They're still solid cards. I feel bad for you that as a new player you picked demon realm though. You'll suffer through the gross overpricing like me.

      Delete
  11. Currently am working on my Demon Deck. My focus is ATK. I am maxing my Elder Daemons and evolving them to make a 4-6 Elder Daemon. Next i am doing the same with my Elder Dragons, and Succubui.

    I have 2 Lovely Elves, a Titan and Witch Commander. I was wondering how much can i hope to get for selling these? From the price check i got it was: 13-18 for each Lovely Elf, 33-38 for the Witch Commander, and 14-18 for the Titan. Im wondering however what should i get in exchange after i sell these. What should i build my deck out of? In a side note i have an SSR Mina and ~45 HP

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    1. Your price check is pretty accurate to what I would assume.

      If it's a demon offensive deck you're working on I'd recommend either snagging up a trow elf or purchasing a Final Form Dark Knight Luciella.

      Delete
    2. I thought about exchanging the Elves for Vampire Lords, is that a fair trade? i belive they are both priced in the same range, then i would max them both and evo them together and max the result and include that in my deck. and arent trow elves 80 each? so is it better to spend all my hp's on a single trow elf? and additionally i am lost when it comes to lucy. some players say she is good others say she is horrible and the price i saw at one point was 30 hps? i think but that seems low so im unsure if i should trust it. by FF do you mean like a 4-6? or what exactly -by the way thank you for your help

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    3. Lucies are an acceptably average card. I would say Lucies are superior to Vampire Lords considering vampire lords awful ability. You can buy Vamp Lords for 10-12HP normally.

      Trow Elfs are not 80HP. Trow Elfs are about 40HP each, I personally bought each of mine for 38HP each. I think I paid 40HP each for the last one or two. By FF I mean Final Form, either 4-6 or 6-10, whichever you prefer.

      Trows will be used for quite some time as wing cards, that's why they are recommended.

      Delete
    4. wing card? im not familiar with that term, so trow are ~40. so i can afford either two of those or a lucy? i keep seeing offers for 70 for lucy now and i dont feel that i want just 1 card for all that i saved up idk is 70 normal?

      Delete
    5. 70hp is pretty high for Lucy. 4-6 Is normally about 30HP. 6-2 is normally 40HP. Of course these are estimates.

      Wing Card: When you're deck is set up during a battle there are five cards, the three center cards have the highest probability of activating their skills. The card on the far left and the card on the far right are known as wing cards. They are also the last two you place in your line up when setting your deck.

      I.E.
      Card 1
      Card 2
      Card 3
      Card 4
      Card 5

      When placing them equals.

      4 - 2 - 1 - 3 - 5

      When looking at them during battle.

      Delete
  12. ok thanks! i got a suggestion somewhere that i should save up and get a nm, then just lowball buy them and sell for normal price. untill i have enough for a 4-6 nm, whats ur thought on this?

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  13. Great guide, thanks so much, you are the king of R.o.B.! Slight typo, the melusine is med hit to foes defense

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  14. im currently building the rare deck = 5 luci's for offense, then 3 luci's + 2 manticores for defense.

    with the new cards, are there any good replacements? with a price range of 20-30 final form?

    thanks

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  15. Does the recommended deck feature give the best deck every time? Also, how do you set up different decks for attack and defense?

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    1. Go into decks and choose one of the open templates. From there select cards in order of 1-5. The skill of card one will proc 100% of the time so put your best skilled card there. The second card you place will go off the second most often, third card third most often, etc.

      After that you click the option to increase priority of the deck you created. This will bring it to the top, once its at top, recommended deck won't be used but this one will.

      Once you complete that you can hit the icon on the top decks when you're in that menu for DEFENSE. This will swap you to defense decks.

      The recommended feature gives you the deck with the highest attack point/defense point totals for their respective deck. It does not account for buffs/debuffs so it is normally not the best deck once you start gathering cards with buffs/debuffs.

      Delete
  16. Any thoughts on Destroyer Golem for a rare demon defense deck?

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    1. Haven't look at it. Chances are it's viable. I know it is a wing card but I dunno if its personal buff will outweigh the overall debuff. There's a fair chance it would though.

      Delete
  17. Are the current decks posted upto date or should I refer to the comment section ? I'm trying to build a rare defense deck and HR atk

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    1. HR decks are up to date.

      In the comments I think a couple of rare cards are mentioned that I didn't bother updating because of the card type. I think the only rare defense card that has come out since my last update is Destroyer Golem which may be the best rare to use in all 5 spots. I never did the math since it's a limited release card.

      Delete
  18. Ok about the HR def deck the Apsaras are going for about 48 HP & the Bloody Mistress are going for about 36 each do u still recommend the Apsaras
    I took a look on wiki & the stats there claim the BM has a higher defense per card wouldn't it be much better to go with her ?

    ReplyDelete
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    1. BMs buff is weaker than Apsaras since Apsaras buff is specific for the realm instead of (all). Technically once realm boost is considered I think they probably even out depending on how it's all computed.

      Realistically given current prices go BM. Apsara isn't 12HP better than BM.

      Delete
  19. Thanks so much but just 1 more thing, if I go 3 Trow elf I'my deck should I place them 213 also wouldn't it be more beneficial to go 5 Trow elfs or does still only give me a 50% chance of the increase ?
    Cheers

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    Replies
    1. No! *smack* bad!

      2 Trow max for demon decks. If you WERE to use 3, they go in spots 3, 4, 5. Their skill boosts gods. When you use 2, they go int he 4th and 5th (wing) spots.

      3 NM, 2 Trow. After that you either upgrade to 3 Jorm 2 Trow, 3 Sutekh 2 Trow, or 3 Hekate 2 Trow. (Technically you can replace the trow but for the price difference it makes little sense until SSR)

      Delete
  20. Hi,
    Just started playing a month ago, so my deck is still far from perfect. Anyway, I've been reading this thread for quite some time, trying to emulate the "best" Rare deck. So far, this is what I have:

    Offense:
    Succubus (11.7k), Goblin Fighter (11.7k), Goblin Fighter (11.3k), Elder Dragon (12.8k), Elder Dragon (12.7k) = ATK: 59,810

    Defense:
    BM (8k, lucky draw - only 1 card), Melusine (10.8k), Melusine++ (the other Melusine++ is lvl 27; planning to do 6-6), the other two are just my goblins above >_<. Working on manticores now ... for my winged cards.

    Question: I got like 70 hps. What should I buy now? I was looking into archdemon and I could probably get 4-7 from anywhere from 70 - 100 hps depending on skill level (est. 3 ~ 5)

    Should I buy that next? And replace my weaker goblin? Or should I wait up for a nightmare at ~ 200 hps? If neither is recommended, please advise. Thanks!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. For offense decks I generally stress building power fast because it really helps during HW.

      If it were me I would go one of two routes. I would either go Archdemon too boost to increase my Holy War value.

      Or B) I would snag up multiple 13k DK Lucys.

      Delete
  21. When you say B), you mean going defense, but it's something I shouldn't focus on too much, right? So I guess go all out on offense and snag that arch demon cuz i would have to wait too long before I get FF nightmare?

    Btw, keep up the good analysis; it's great to read your blog!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah, I'd probably go Arch. Lucy I just think dual purposes and gives a couple k offensive boost but arch is still better. To me it really depends on pricing though.

      If I can pick up 3 DK Lucies over 13k attack for the price of 1 Arch it's tempting.

      Also, don't forget you can work on your wing cards, I've seen 19k trow elves for as low as 100HP.

      Delete
  22. Hey Lucarda,
    Thanks for the informative explanations on buffs and debuffs. There's a question I had about the new Scylla card that came out. Per wiki, a 4-3 evo would yield 14864/16193, but the power consumption is 25. Would this be a decent affordable wing card to go along with 3 DK Lucies? They go for as low as 6hp each.
    Thanks

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    Replies
    1. I've seen Scylla. I focus on offensive cards so I brushed right past her. She is a very viable wing card for the price as is Chimaera.

      Delete
  23. What S Rare cards are best for the price in your opinion? I'm still building my high rare demon deck, but was wondering if it might be better to skip straight to S Rare for certain cards.

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    1. It isn't. Most of the SR's end up either lackluster or grossly overpriced, especially in Demon Realm.

      Delete
  24. Thanks for the advice, may have saved me some time and HP

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  25. with the reslease of new card, is it still better to stack 3 nightmare or use 3 dragonewt princess?

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    Replies
    1. I would say two drago's under a nightmare lead off the top of my head. Would need to do the math though.

      Delete
    2. I went ahead and played with the math and I do think the new optimum now is NM, 2x Dragonewt, 2x Trow. ~7k difference 1 skill proc, ~4k for 2, and negligible gain at 3 skill proc.
      Assumptions:
      1) level 1 skills
      2) no alignment/atk leader boosts
      3) 6-max
      4) Comparing to 3x NM 2x Trow
      Seeing the ridiculous price of dragonewt though, I'd hang tight for a while.

      Delete
  26. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  27. Same question as dcrow for wing cards. I would say that the best hr atk deck is now : 1 nightmare and 4 dragonewt princesses.
    What do you think?

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    Replies
    1. Trow still beats as wings. Also, at the current pricing it would be foolish to invest in 4 Dragonewts. You lose 700 attack in exchange for the buff. All this at the price of an extra 160HP+ per card.

      I wouldn't use 4 of them. Just not worth it.

      Delete
  28. I have a question about your demon def deck. Using base stats and assuming all stat increases are linear to those base stats I compared the rare demon attack deck to the rare demon defense deck you had up here and got this:

    Sucubus 5600 10% atk buff
    Sucubus 5600
    Sucubus 5600
    Elder Dragon 6040
    Elder Dragon 6040

    28880 atk unbuffed

    31768 10% sigle atk buff proc




    Melusine 5100 5% opp atk debuff
    Melusine 5100
    Melusine 5100
    Manticore 6080
    Manticore 6080

    27460 unbuffed def

    single 5% atk debuf cuts opponent atk to 30324
    double 5% atk debuf cuts opponent atk to 28880
    triple 5% atk debuf cuts opponent atk to 27436




    Jack-'o-Lantern 5920 5% def buff
    Jack-'o-Lantern 5920
    Jack-'o-Lantern 5920
    Manticore 6080
    Manticore 6080

    29920 def unbuffed

    31416 5% signel def buff proc
    32912 second 5% def buff proc


    So based on the assumption that I can only know for sure the first proc and compare it seems Melusine is inferior in every way to using Jack-'o-lantern. I'm new to this game, is there something I am missing. Also in your example of swapping out Dark Knight Luciellas why not just keep the Manticores as neither buff is a guarantee of being useful even if they go off and the Manticore has higher base def?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. What you're missing is the date on the post :P

      Jack-o-lantern didn't exist when I made this. Personally I'm pretty happy it stood up this long but I've noted in a recent post that I will be doing updates to my 'best' decks.

      Although Rares will take a backseat to HR/SR at some point I will be updating them as well.

      Delete
  29. This comment has been removed by the author.

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  30. so now that they've completely changed the skill system, how does that affect the best decks? seems like it would affect whether to stack 5 of a card as opposed to having a couple different cards... not sure whether the info is out there yet as to how exactly probability of activating skills changes based on level of skill. for anyone doubting me, check home under info from admin...

    ReplyDelete
  31. so what do you think cruel priestess is going to become. the new wraith? if it has 13%boost that is?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It has a 10% Boost.

      Minimum replacing 1 Marsyas or possibly both.

      Delete
    2. Ehhh...I really like that 13% buff from wraith. I would say to try Wraith, Cruel, Cruel, BM, BM. But I haven't done the math.

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    3. Yes, that was what i was talking about.

      (1) Wraith, Cruel, Cruel, BM, BM

      or

      (2) Wraith, Marsyas, Cruel, BM, BM

      --

      1 has a 300 more Base on Defense and 2 has a small higher probability to make a 3 Proc.

      Delete
  32. Would this work?
    Wing | Xuan Wu | BM | Eos | Wing - work? Or

    Marsyas | Xuan Wu | BM | Eos | Wing ?

    It would almost 90k base with 6-7 or 6-10's. But it's only 2 realms (somewhat resistant to realm specific debuffs), but I lose that 5% realm bonus for each non-demon I use. Maybe I should move my wings to SR/SSR so it might help?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. People still aren't using realm specific debuffs at the moment and are opting for realm specific buffs and duo realm buffs in their attack deck. Assuming similar base attacks, you will probably lose.

      That being said, in majority of cases equal base defenses always lose during holy wars anyway now with Shingeki and chain.

      Defense is kind of useless.

      Delete
  33. For Demon hr attack, is nm, dk, dk pretty much the same as with one mh? I ask because the bazaar price for a mh is twice that of a dk.

    The other mh-less option would be nm, nm, dk.

    Thoughts?

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  34. Mh was ridiculously cheap during the event, if you didn't get them then they cost. Really wish I d followed my gut and bought as many as I could.

    For the high rare decks;

    Defence; wraith.cruel priestess.marsyas.bloody mistress.bloody mistress?
    Offence; nightmare.mad hatter.demonic knight.dark faure.skoll?

    Faure because its a cheap Knight. Skoll because whilst trow has 1000 on it, the best defence decks you face are gods or men, and the better their defence score, the more skoll is worth. I use it and there is no doubt in my mind its better than trow; its ability goes off a lot and when it does you are talking a 9k debuff.

    And thank you for taking the time to write this, it has been very, very useful to me!

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Thanks. I've been thinking of swapping Skoll in with that in mind but I'm waiting til the end of the month to do another Deck update. The cards just shift so quickly with a new type of pack being released almost weekly now.

      Delete
  35. Why are you still using Nightmare as Leader??Could you just exchange it with another card with the same buff but with more ATK like MadHatter or Demonic Knight either Dragonewt Princess ???
    In this case you would have 2k ATK more. Am i wrong??

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I am not updating this until the end of the month. Also, Neither MH or DK have the buff of NM, theirs is 2% lower. Dragonewts buff is only 8% making it pretty awful choice in general as well considering some of the other options out there.

      Most of the the time only two buffs go off so if it was Dragonewt and MH, Total buffs would be 19% instead of 24% that NM and MH would hit. Although you would gain 2k stats base, you would losing almost 4k in buffs. Dragonewt is a bad card.

      Pan on the other hand, would be a better leader even though its god because of the fact that it still buffs demons and gods, has higher stats, and increases the odds of 3 buffs going off.

      Delete
  36. Lucarda you have wrong the skill for dk, demonic knight is big bost for man/demons. If so I think you need to use dark faure if you use pan as lead. Otherwise Pan would be losing 10% bost when the dk procs. :).

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