Thursday, December 6, 2012

Best R/HR December Update

Alright, so I sat down and forced myself to do go through my Best R/HR posts and update them. The Best R/HR Man, Best R/HR God, and Best R/HR Demon decks have been updated.

Man:
-Rare attack added High Gunner as wings
-Rare Defense added Castor as wings
-High Rare attack had no changes since it's claymore
-High Rare defense placed Master Astrologist as wings. I like it more than Captains.

God:
-Rare attack swapped completely to three *Corrected: 1 Agni and 2 Centaur** and two Reshef.
-Defense remained the same
-High Rare attack swapped to Trow and four Sword Valk despite my hatred of Trow in the top spot of a god deck.
-High Rare defense doesn't change (come on, 5 Apsara aren't going anywhere for a while.

Demon:
-Rare attack stayed the same since oddly no real offensive demon cards were released in rare.
-Rare defense deck changed to three Jack-o-lantern and two scorpio/manticore. Also recommendation to use Destroyer Golems if you can find them as wings.
-High rare attack swapped to NM, Dragonewt, Dragonewt, Trow, Trow. Primarily because I don't think it's worth paying all the extra to run three or four Dragonnewts.

So, these decks should be running current unless I missed something. Most of the cards Rage added it seemed were cards that were close to being top notch cards but hit missed the mark. Neko for example had 18+k attack but failed in the buff department. Xuanwu was released in gods but is slightly worse than Apsara.

60 comments:

  1. Just curios, since you use trow in God desk, isn't it better to stack 4 CL instead of 4 SV. debuff will affect their whole desk while Trow won't benefit from Valk buff at all

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    1. Valk buff is boost(All), so Trow will get the boost

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    2. lol, totally forgot about that, stupid me ^^

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  2. Currently my attack deck is
    - 1x 6/6 Trow
    - 2x Ifrit, and
    - 2x C.Lilies

    And my def is
    - 1x shield
    - 2x rhea
    - 1x princi
    - 1x Ares

    Is the difference is between 1Trow, 4SV big enuf to warrant a change in deck or i just upgrade my def instead.

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    Replies
    1. It matters in your deck because Trow doesn't receive the buff from Ifrits...

      I run Trow in spot one in my own deck and LOVE it (had to counter Luc's hatred for her!) ... so I would say it's worth switching your 2 Ifrit's into 2 SV's or CL's (either will suffice since base is nearly identical and neither conflict with Trow)

      That is actually an easy swap because Ifrit is actually more valuable on the market right now than Lily, so you can perhaps even make HP in that upgrade.

      All that said, your offense is quite a bit better than your defense, so defense should be a priority. I'd work on getting that 4-6 Aspara in slot 1, Angel in the 2 slot is good, so getting one 4-6 aspara and skill leveling it would substantially improve your level of competitiveness.

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  3. If I have two captains as wings, is it worth the hp to swap them for m. astrologist?

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  4. Hi Lucarda

    Wouldn't be better to do a NM + NM + DP + DP + Trow on Demon HR?
    Didn't do the Math but you actually have 4 procs instead of 3.


    Cheers

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    Replies
    1. Unfortunately for consistent higher damage DP does better.

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    2. Yes, I know that. I mean instead of the second Trow. Because price is out of this world for DP now. Good that I made me to when they were released.

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    3. You only have 3 Proc's still btw, you just cover the chance of spot 4 going off. 4 proc's can't occur.

      Ideally what you would do is run 1NM, 3DN, and a Trow. But because the difference in stats is so small and the price difference is so large, I don't recommend it. 2NM, 2DN, and 1Trow is inferior to 1NM, 2DN, 2Trow, but not by a large margin.

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    4. Yes sure, that was that I meant.
      Didn't think that 2 Trow are better. It is enough annoying if one Trow procs, don't want to give the chance of hitting 2 trow procs ;-)

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    5. Yeah, earlier today I had both my Trow proc costing me a match :(. It happens but it's rare.

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  5. So Lucarda, why the hatred for Trow Elf in a Gods deck? As I see it, Cygames can dump all the new cards they want. But as you stated, those cards won't be much else than an alternative to an existing card (for instance: Shield Angel, Cybele, Xuanwu and Mystic Fairy are virtually the same with different atk/def stat). Unless they plan to add new game(card) functionality, the unexplored area are cross-realm boost cards. And where Trow Elf stands out is, it can be used in a gods deck (center ATK) or a demon deck (wing ATK).
    Also I encourage the idea for stimulating rainbow (multiple realm) decks. Surely it won't be as powerful as an 1-realm deck, but it also makes it less vulnerable to 1-realm debuff cards.
    Just my thought about the Trow Elf, let me know what you think of it.

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    1. Ah. Because Trows existence in the deck is only allowed because a blatant lack of Claymore type God Card. Before the existence of SV/CL Three Ifrits beat Trow Elf, 2 Ifrit, 2 Wings.

      Trow is only useful if you use cards with (all) buffs or debuff cards. I dislike the fact that its existence promotes using cards with weaker buffs.

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  6. did you do the math on the centaurs replacing Agni?
    They make for a 5% buff/debuff difference. I doubt that covers the difference in stats.

    Difference in attack is less than 1500 a card (11.5k vs 13k). 5% extra over 50k+ deck gives 2500+ extra attack.
    Since Agni gives 10% buff and Centaur only 5% debuff.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Quick math showed that in a 2 card proc situation, Centaur lost by 600ish. In a 1 card proc situation Centaur won by 1.5kish.

      I corrected the deck. Ideally you would use 1 agni, 2 Centaur, and 2 Reshef. This ends in the highest yielding result under a 2 proc scenario which is the most common. Under a 1 proc scenario it is also the highest.

      In a 3 Proc scenario it loses by less than 2k. Considering that when 3 cards proc, they are rarely 1, 2, 3 in conjunction but more often 1,2,4 or 1,3,4, I try to use the math on a 2 Proc scenario as a standard.

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  7. Probably should be replace the Swords with CL for the time being since CL is only 10 HP. 200 HP (5x4x10 HP) is pretty cheap for a 90K attack deck (with Trow in the middle). I thought they would be cheap, but not that cheap.

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    Replies
    1. Yeah, but they're a limited time card and I don't want to have to jump back and swap em again.

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  8. Yeah CL trumps SV and only half the price. Doubt it will stay this way though

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    Replies
    1. Somebody did the math and CL was shown to be slightly worst than SV, although marginally. She is an acceptable replacement.

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  9. currently have 3 ifrits and 2 hermes as my attack deck. how should i go about improving this? would 5 claymore maids be better even though im god realm?

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    Replies
    1. Yeah, but your deck is good enough. I wouldn't suggest swapping cards to another realm for no reason. If you pop a Haniel or Andromeda in your top spot you'll equalize everything.

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  10. What about dragon slayer for man? With its mid 17k attack and a 50% buff to self, I think it makes a good wing. And only costs ~ 6hp base

    5 of them would be a cheap way to hit for ~112k before realm/order boosts. (All 4-3 at skill 1)

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    Replies
    1. Very solid card at the price. I tend to dislike self buffs though so I normally recommend a card like that as wing.

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  11. CMs skill well going from 13% to 23% buff increasing attack from 126k to a max of 163k at 10

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    Replies
    1. CM's are boss. Drives me nuts that neither of the other realms have an equal card.

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  12. Rocky Fou,

    I am also running the same setup with the 3 Infrits and 2 Hermes. I think the best SR setup is what is posted on this site with the 3 Hanels and 2 Thor's.

    I got lucky and pulled a Sephirot today in a card pack so I think I am going to sell one of my Hermes and upgrade to a Sephirot then work on buying a Thor.

    The prices on the Bazaar are just crazy low right now, there is just an influx of cards with the 3 tier card promo going and everyone must be saving like crazy for HW's.

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    Replies
    1. i can't really afford haniels right now haha. he did mention that Sephirot was also viable so i guess my next step would be to start replacing the ifrits with sephirots?

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    2. Seph is viable, but the buff is only 10 instead of 15 so don't try to stack them up. Just buy one or two and put them in your 2/3 spots.

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  13. I thnk instead of 4 SV you should take 2 CL and 2 SV because if your opponent has a better def than your Attack the skill of CL is more useful than the skill of SV

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    1. Really, it doesn't matter which you use. SV's boost is based off your stats, and CL's off your opponent's, but in order to get a stronger CL boost, your opponent must be stronger. There is a cap to how far she can make you win, and it is right around where the SV's is.

      There really is no effective difference between the two abilities. One just gives you a bigger number in the battle report.

      CL is better overall because her attack is higher. SV may do more damage to walls. That is all.

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  14. Now that Chiron is out, although more expensive, wouldn't Chiron in the 4th and 5th wing spots be even better than SV and CL?

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    Replies
    1. He's not actually better than Lily (or Sword Valk).

      At 6-11 evo, he is +658 Attack over Lily (+722 over Valk).
      At Sk10, Lily/Valk offer a 18% 'boost'.

      Slot 4 has a 24% chance of proc (40% when 2 and 3 don't go off). This means that the boost will, on average, work out to about 4027.

      Slot 5 has a 6.88% chance of proc, which comes out to an 1155 average. A case could be made for running him in slot 5, especially since you will want him for HW, but a Lily/Valk will still be better on average.

      So, if you want to have the more consistently best deck, stick with 4 Lily/Valk. If you like the risk for the conditionally better, run Chiron and make sure your Defense deck is Apsara x3 and Xuanwu x2.

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    2. Xargo is right. Your peak will be higher but you'll hit lows more often. It's a calculated risk.

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  15. Are you going to update the cheap hr decks? Are there any changes? My deck is currently ff minatour ff succubus ff succubus ff succubus ff elder dragon. No real defense deck yet and I have 60 hp. What do you suggest in do?

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    Replies
    1. I may, but it's not huge on my priority list. There are a LOT of effective cheap decks.

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    2. Thx Lucarda, what would be the most affective use of my hp?

      Delete
  16. Hi,

    I've Man Def deck - 5X Paladins, would U Lecarda recommend to change wings to M. Astrologists or it's not worth it ?

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    Replies
    1. I wouldn't spend time on it. 5x paladin is pretty nice and effective. Instead I would save for S-Rare wings.

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    2. Thought so too. Needed only second hand on that decision. Thank You Lucarda. Gr8 site.

      Delete
  17. OK, am I missing something here? I guess I just dont see a reason to move to the SR realm in Gods for the price of the cards and the cost to level them up.

    I mean, I guess I would rather 6 card a Crystal Lily which gives you 18500 atk and skill it to level 10 then run a Sephirot. I know I am giving away 1k in atk but the skill is going to hit for 20% in comparison to the Sephirot which will take me forever and a day to hit for 20% unless I drop a ton of HP to skill it up.

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    1. You're not missing anything. It's the same reason you're probably better off running 6-10 Aspara's skilled up over a 4-6 Sleipnir on defense.

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    2. The jump from Rare to HR is a huge improvement but the jump from HR to SR is a mild one. Oddly enough, the jump from SR to SSR for a long time was worse until cards like Batraz came out.

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  18. What's your take on Pan the new Hr card? Is it better than sword valk or Crystal lily?

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  19. what's your take on the combination skills gods/demons boost to atk or deff with the new cards that were introduced talking about the demon realm cards Eligos/Marsyas and Hamelin,the last 2 outrank our current option for our mainslot in the highrare defence Wraith,Marsyas get's more than 18 k defence and hamelin even more than 20k he outranks even death in the sr deff decks.could you confirm this????
    Second of all how about the trade / downside of this skill combination.do we lose alot of % when we tradeout wraith for the new cards????and not to mention the srare decks do we get a viable sr deff deck in the demon realm because of this????

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    1. From what im been hearing in forums, hamelin should be the sr version of wraith. Based on azazels dual boost of 18% to the 20% single boost, it is assumed that dual boost are 2% lower than the normal boosts.

      So hamelin should have a 13% boost since great is normally 15%, but due to the dual boost it loses 2%.

      Again this isnt proven to be true yet but it is a educated guess from other knowledgable players.

      Hope that helped?

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    2. With the new rules coming into effect in the 26th can you forsee the new best decks for each realm? Or will they not change at all

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    3. They will change slightly. The key with the changes is to understand that cards now also have an increased chance to proc if they are skilled up. If the % is equal to the debuff virtually nothing will change.

      If the debuff in chance to proc is much higher, the decks will change significantly.

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  20. What's your take on a cheaper alternative to dragonnewt princess for hr demon deck. I'm just braking into hrs and i have about 100 hp left already having finished my NM and 1 trow. I was thinking either arch deamon or ark dragon... The price of DNP is crazy compared to the alternatives. 80 vs 7...

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    1. DNP is absurd I know. I'm not willing to buy her since she is close to SR pricing.

      Hold off on her for the moment since skills are changing in their proc rates.

      Delete
  21. My deck right now is 2 trow, 1 arch daemon, 1 minotaur, and 1 shadowmere. Shadowmere is getting replaced with demonic knight. And either arch daemon or minotaur is getting replaced with mad hatter. Whichever one I keep, should I get rid of it for nightmare, or keep a card with a debuff in my deck?

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  22. one debuff will make it easier for you to win,but if this is your deck,keep the arch demon and the 2 trow and replace the minotaur and the shadowmere

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  23. Can i replace one sword valk for an elaine?

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  24. Got a question. Is a NM still a better choice as leader then a Dem. Knight, although it has a higher atk?

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    1. I personally use NM, but if you use DK, Hatter, and DNP it would be a stronger starting line up I believe. haven't done the math though.

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  25. And also, what seems to be a good compensation for DNP? , since it's still somewhat expensive

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    1. DNP is dropping in price atm so wait and see.

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  26. Do i have to set trow as a leader to activate it's skill? because whenever i attack, trow's skill isnt activated

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