Wednesday, December 26, 2012

New Decks Incoming

Personally I did some experiments using two of the same card and didn't notice a huge shift in Proc rate when one was highly leveled. I don't know if anybody else has experienced different yet. With that in mind though and for reasons I listed previously, my decks will probably each switch by one card. In some cases I may swap a couple of cards.

This is not to say stacking the same card isn't viable. After all, we technically stacked the same card in the top three spots in order to improve our chances of a two proc of good skills. We were not stacking three because we thought all three would proc regularly. With the changes, two will still proc often. But by swapping one card out, we can make two proc even more often.

Now, the way the decks will shift will still remain within their rarities. Ideally though these changes promote the use of a card of a higher rarity as leader. For example, Clay, Clay, Clay can now become Achilles, Clay, Clay and experience a very large increase in proc rate. This would be an ideal, but because of the way I list my decks, it won't be noted like this. Instead, Clay, Clay, Clay might become Clay, Clay, Master Archer.

Finally, these changes greatly increase the viability of having an anti realm deck for each realm where only the topmost card is a debuffer. For example Master Samurai, Clay, Clay for an anti demon deck. High Alchemist, Clay, Clay for anti God deck. Since anti realm cards are cheap and effective it makes purchasing a debuff card for each realm viable.

So, expect changes to the decks. Ideally you just want to swap the leader card to a higher rarity card for the best results.

44 comments:

  1. considering the new changes that will happen in jap rob, how would u reconsider your line up again?
    http://robforums.com/game-discussion/jpn-rob-change-to-max-skill-lvl

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I'm about as concerned about that as I am about the Fifth evo's we were supposedly getting. :P

      No decks would change based on the skill 14 if they ever release it. What will change is high level cards will increase in price because there will be an even higher demand for them.

      Delete
    2. by some calculation, if trow at sk14 gives 28% whereas haniel at sk10 gives 25%. wouldnt the 3% increase in boost overcome the 1k stats difference granted we are toking abt 4-7 for both?
      and evo'd sr is a lot easier to skill up compared to evo'd ssr, and i wun feel as much pain feeding 4 trows compared to feeding 4 haniels.
      currently there is no news if the unlocking of max skill is guaranteed, meaning 4 haniels unlocking is only possibly a best case scenario.
      given the above situation, might it be possible that HR will be more desirable and a price increase resulting from a increase in demand?

      Delete
    3. So shud i stock up on hr boost cards for this change or stick to buying haniels if i wanna earn some big money on this?

      Delete
    4. Considering how long its been that people have been saying "japan has 5 evo's we're getting them soon" I wouldn't be in a hurry.

      There is no indication that this change would be coming soon, if ever coming to the western version of rage.

      Delete
    5. There's plenty of situations where Eastern-made games have changes made to make them more palatable to Western audiences. Reducing the grinding needed to reach max level tends to be one of them, and 5th evos and the mechanics on 14 skill levels are two things that probably would not go over well with a Western audience. Think about it, in order to have a perfect legend card, you'd need TWENTY cards to get the 16-max to skill 10, then another 4-0 card to unlock skill 14.

      That's retarded.

      Delete
    6. Well, the first step has been made towards retardness ;)

      Delete
  2. Lucarda, I am still confused about this new skill change. For example; if I have a Pan (gods) and a Mad Hatter (demons) which are two different cards from different realms, but the have the same exact skill, will the new rule apply?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. it actually must be a skill of the same name, meaning the same card, however the stage of evolution.

      which means that sword valk and master archer, although giving the same boost, but does not affect each other under the new mechanics. same goes for pan and mad hatter.

      however pan and pan+ will affect each other

      Delete
  3. Lucarda, first I think that you nailed it on the head in reference to the topmost card. Before the skill proc change, most ATK decks would have used a realm specific buffer, but now it looks to be more advantageous to use a realm specific debuffer. This would also lead to players building more FF cards and having more deck setups. In my opinion, this will change the playing field entirely in a way most people wouldn't have expected. My only concern when utilizing these realm specific attack decks is that we have no way of knowing what realm our opponents are using. If we have knowledge of what realm our players are, it would give a higher chance of successfully using realm specific decks.
    Does any other players agree or disagree?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The opponents listing is color-coded. I don't think there's a feature like this in Holy Wars, but you could always just search up the user names.

      Of course, just because they're of a certain realm doesn't mean they'll always use cards of that realm. A 5% sacrifice on their part could save them from a far more devastating debuff. If more players decide to use realm-targeting decks, off-realm defense decks might become a new trend.

      Delete
    2. Well, I'm referring to actually have a deck for each realm. Since you'd only be changing the lead card you would have one of each of the debuffing card and actually use your anti-god, anti-demon, anti-man slots for decks.

      It is an option that is more viable now.

      Delete
    3. The strategy is certainly viable, but as soon as new cards with realm boosts are released, people will flock to those. After all, the only reason for exploring the use of realm debuffers is the need for card variety. The Japanese wiki already has a fair selection of cards with the same skill effects (a power 26 sister of Claymore Maid, for example). Eventually we'll be back to running the same cards, only with different names.

      Indeed, until then, this will allow for some interesting battles. Perhaps something like this from time to time:

      Player 1 attacks Player 2 (demons), using a demons debuffer in slot 1. P2 anticipates anti-demons attackers, and uses a combination of man and gods cards for defense, rendering the debuff ineffective. P1 gets lucky with a skill proc from a wing card, debuffing P2's gods cards. However, P2's 2-realm defense buff triggers and boosts both man and gods. The attack fails.

      Delete
  4. This comment has been removed by the author.

    ReplyDelete
  5. skill proc testings: http://robforums.com/game-discussion/proc-rate-data-collection-2-0-%28please-read-rules%29/

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Judging from that sampling, if the cards are leveled to skill 10 there is virtually no change in the chance of two cards procing. It pretty much verifies what I thought was going to happen. Thanks for linking this.

      Delete
    2. What about at skill level 1? Is there a rough estimate for the proc rate penalty yet?

      Delete
    3. From what I saw when the skills were low level the wing cards often proc'd since they were different, so it's tough to say.

      Delete
    4. actually the current sampling shows so far that the proc chance drops by a factor of 2 on slvl 10.

      Delete
    5. Hm. Looks like there's a lot more info. I was actually reading through the posts instead of his tallied information. In the posts it appeared that most people were having either their second or third card going off. A vast majority in fact within the first couple pages.

      As it progressed it seemed that it started to offset quite a bit. It looks like my decks will end up switching up all three top cards since it's a 25% drop at skill 10. This is a significant nerf to card stacking.

      Delete
    6. I guess we'll have to try setups like A, B, B, C, C, or A, B, C, B, C.

      Delete
  6. Luc I think the skill proc they introduced is different then what u described. If u have 2 different cards with the same skill then no pen will apply, that what I read or proceed to read.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. I've stated this in several posts starting with my first one on Procs. The skill is NOT Big Boost to God. The skill is what the name of the skill is for example Ifrit is Flame Storm. So one flamestorm reduces the chance of a second flame storm, it has no effect on Trows buff since her's is mana sphere.

      This means it only applies to same cards, not same proc. I've thought I have been clear on this in my posts and several of my responses.

      Delete
  7. Alright, so here is my God deck...

    1 - Reborn VH 14.1K skill 5/10
    2 - God of Fire Ifrit 14.9K 10/10
    3 - Divine Notes Pan 17.9K skill 7/10
    4 - Hero King Gilgimesh 19.7K skill 5/10
    5 - Noble Centuar Chiron 18.5K skill 3/10

    Is this a good order??? Seems like it should be b/c i would think i would want the 15% on the VH and my ifrit is almost certain to hit most of the time with a 21% boost and 10/10 skill...that leaves me the 7/10 Pan and Gilgi to interchange...thoughts?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. The idea behind deck set up is to maximize chances of your top two buffs procing. Three will proc but you can't count on them.

      That being said, your top two buffs are Ifrit and Pan. With the changes where level increases chance to Proc, it is viable to go Pan, Ifrit, Valk. Personally, I would still go Ifrit, Pan, Valk. The reason is Ifrits buff is 23% at lvl 10, Pans is 18% at lvl 7 (I believe), and Valk is 15%.

      I just would want to be 100% sure that Ifrits goes off since it is so high, so I would put him as the leader.

      Delete
    2. I appreciate the input. Wouldnt Valk be at 20% with a 5 skill? I wish there was a cost effective step up from the Valk with higher power but Haniel is a bit out of my price range :)

      Thanks again for the comments.

      Delete
    3. If Valk is at 20%, does that push pan back to third and i just switch my Ifrit and Valk?

      Delete
    4. Valk would be at 20% and he would be the second choice pushing Pan back.

      Delete
  8. Hey Luc, you've been really helpful in getting me to where I am... I'm in the middle of trying some new things with the new cards, so I thought I'd look for your input again.

    I have this set up right now:

    1. Jabberwocky (4-7, skill 6)
    2. Pan (6-10, skill 8)
    3. Sword Valkyrie (6-10, skill 10)
    4. Trow Elf (6-10, skill 10)
    5. Gilgamesh (4-7, skill 4)

    I guess i have a few questions:

    1. Is this the best order? I could put Trow in slot 1 and Jabber in 2, the only issue of course is Jabber (and of course Trow) not getting Trow's buff. Should I just pitch the Trow? The problem is to get a God card of similar attack (say Hermes) is an expensive upgrade.

    2. should I sell my Trow Elf for one with a lower skill (and make some HP in the process) so that it being of higher skill than my Pan doesn't throw off my procs? Eventually I'd like to get Pan to skill 10 anyway, but it was a hassle getting that Jabber skilled up.

    3. Where do I go from here? I have 6 Madd Hatter's... but subbing him in for the SV isn't a great upgrade. I thought about getting a Sephirot or Cait Sith to go in slot 3... but I'm just trying to see what will get me the most value for my HP.

    ReplyDelete
  9. I assume that what you're trying to do is get a God/Demon realm with 3 god cards and 2 Demon.

    I don't see how you could shift the deck the way it is without either using a Hatter or going into SR cards.

    Personally, I'm not a huge Sephirot/Cait fan. Instead I would probably go for Thor.

    ReplyDelete
  10. I'm building a deck of Nightmare Hatter Demonic Knight, Ark Dragon and Ark Dragon. I'm planning on replacing my Nightmare with a Jabberwocky build. All are 6-11 build I think right now it is a great option for your cheap hr deck.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. It is a good option. Demonic Knight and Hatter are significantly lower in price than I think they should be.

      Delete
  11. Well the 5th form is out... And the crowd goes wild......

    ReplyDelete
  12. Hey had a question about the booster sets. My girlfriend is giving me 25 bucks worth of coins for christmas. Should i try to hit up this New Years Booster Box or save it for something else? I have been reading tons of articles and forums of people saying that the booster packs are shit and they dont give you anything good. Not sure if this is just there opinion or representative of the booster boxes as a whole. What do you think, if you had 25 bucks worth of coins what would you spend it on? my buddy said something about crystals and saving it for that. any thoughts?

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Dunno. I honestly have never spent anything on the game. My deck and HP is all based on trading.

      I would say booster boxes make the most sense to me, but I like gambling.

      Delete
    2. hey patsfan, I wouldn't recommend spending money on the card packs simply because they are about 3$ per card. If i were to spend money on the game, I'd suggest the 100 mobacoin pack (the one you can only buy once a day). That's 1$, and you at least get 1 HP to show for it. I'd also advise to buy those only when they have events going on like 3x and up chance of SR/SSR. Just my opinion!

      Delete
  13. I already went ahead and built anti-alignment decks right before the skill change, and boy did I see a change in prices.
    I picked up an sk3 tiamat for 200 hp. I wish I had bought an sk10 that I saw for 410hp, because now I'm seeing a huge hike in price of an additional 200hp. Oh well, I actually bought a Ded Moroz with that HP instead.

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Yeah, interesting how things shift.

      Delete
    2. I realized the shift in price was mainly due to the new 5th evo of tiamat. However, I regret not buying a temptress vampire in time because she just went from ~85hp for 4max to double. Her 5th evo isn't released yet I don't think, but in anticipation, prices are going nuts right now.

      Delete
    3. Wow I didn't even realize that TV increased that much in cost, even with her 5th evo, her stats are lackluster. The art of her 5th evo is probably what drives the price though. Anything is possible though, bought a Tia for 45hp yesterday, flipped it today for 138. The stats doesn't justify the cost increase imo.

      Delete
    4. Whoo who. Maybe I can finally sell my TV. Been trying to sell her since Bazaar came out.

      Delete
  14. The prices just seem to keep dropping for HR. I saw base apsara for 9hp today (the one time i was looking for apsara, prolly went even lower at some point), and White Rabbits have been sold for 2hp several times. I just bought a base ifrit for 3hp. For God HR cards it seems the vast majority of cards can now be bought for 1-3hp if keeping a keen eye on the bazaar. Can we really expect prices to climb back up?

    ReplyDelete
  15. I feel I'm on this site more than I am actually playing the game :) Here is a question in sure most people are facing right now. If you are and have found a solution let me know. I'm focusing on my first three slots because my wings are Thors for my attack deck and apsaras still for my defense deck.

    Attack Deck:
    Ifrit skill 10
    Ifrit skill 10
    Pan skill 10

    Defense Deck:
    Apsara skill 10
    Apsara skill 10
    (I haven't found a replacement)

    Suggestions please. Should I keep my current attack rotation or should I change out one of those ifrits??? Also on the defense side what should I buy for my third card?? I have 350HP at the moment working on flipping a few cards.

    ReplyDelete