Monday, December 17, 2012

New Skill Proc

Fancy my surprise when I woke up and found out a week after updating my decks, a task I was putting off, the skill system will change.

There is a lot of concern about how this is going to mess up decks in Rage of Bahamut. For those who don't know, leveling a skill on a card will now increase its chance to proc as well as its power. On top of this, cards with the same skill are less likely to go off.

For example, if Claymore Maid 1 goes off, Claymore Maid 2s chance to proc will be reduced, if both still go off Claymore Maid 3s chance will be reduced again.

Now, assuming all proc rates remain the same outside of these changes this won't be that big of a deal. I'm wagering that if one goes off it will decrease the chance of another one going off by 10%. Assuming both top cards are skill 10, this balances to the same chances during a two proc since you will gain 10% chance by skilling it to 10. The chance of a full on three proc occuring is reduced by 10% overall.

So don't go freaking out throwing all your Apsara/Lancelot defenses out yet. If they work in 10% drops, which I think would be most logical, not much is changing.

What does change...

Is the fact that certain card set can be improved upon. For example, people who chose to do Four Dragonewt Princess will find that their deck that was marginally stronger than 1NM, 2DP, 2Trow, is now marginally weaker since the odds of that fourth or fifth cards skills going off are now in the gutter.

A Sleipner running pointman on an Apsara deck is significantly improved from five Apsara because Sleipnir will go off 100%, the first Apsara will have a 10% increased chance to go off, and the third ones chance will remain the same as before (10% for skill up, 10% decrease since other Apsara proc'd). A King Arthur running point on Lancelot is a significant improvement for the same reason.

If you look at it a certain way, the game is buffing people who use different cards by increasing their proc chances and only giving a 10% debuff to proc chance on people stacking cards. They are also giving players reasons to buy SR cards.

Some examples:
All of these examples are figured assuming the buffs are 10% at skill 10 and the debuffs are 10% per proc. For the two card examples, the first card will always go off and the % will be listed for the odds of the 2, 3, 4, 5 spots going off. For the three card examples the first and second card go off and the % will be listed for the odds of the 3, 4, 5 spots going off.

Five Apsara looked like this as far as procs go:

100%, 70%, 50%, 30%, 10% (I can't remember exact percentages)

Now it will look like this if all cards are skill level 1 and only two will proc:

100%, 60%, 40%, 20%, 0% (10% hit from before)

It will look like this if all cards are skill level 10 and only two will proc:

100%, 70%, 50%, 30%, 10% (0% hit from before)

Now, the odds of all three proccing at skill 1:

100%, 60%, 30%, 10%, 0% (20% hit from before)

The odds of all three proccing at skill 10:

100%, 70%, 40%, 20%, 0% (10% hit from before)

What you should pull from this is that when cards are at skill ten, the nerf is a 10% decrease that three cards should proc. Low skill level cards are nerfed quite a bit in comparison.

Lets use the same example, but with our new deck, Sleipnir is the leader and all cards are skill 10. This will be for two to proc.

100%, 80%, 60%, 30%, 20% (10% buff with increased chances of two proccing all the way through)

For three to proc:

100%, 80%, 50%, 30%, 20% (10% buff still)

Now for the most fun. Andromeda, Sleipner, Apsara, Apsara, Apsara. All skill 10. Chances of three proccing.

100%, 80%, 60%, 40%, 30% (20% buff to proc chance)

This is a fair balanced change. This buffs people who use cards in different realms and is only a slight nerf to people who stack all of a certain card. This will increase the usefulness of SR and SSR as well as the usefulness of cards that have the mixed realm buff like Hamelin. This change pleases me because I think it is a fair and balanced change.

Now, I will be greatly displeased if the percent chance goes down by something like 20-30% because then it's just over the top. If it is the decks will look something like Card 1: Best buff, Card 2/3: Second best buff in realm, Cards 4/5 Wing cards and you'll just do all math based on two buffs.


  1. I was just about to post about this skill change!

    The wiki:

    looks to state proc rates of skills differently from what you posted (I thought it worked like you posted as well). It seems like the proc chance waterfalls, with the chance of a second card proccing at 50%, a third at 25% and so on. Which feels closer to what I experience. This causes some different issues when dealing with this proc suppresion, would it cause a card that did proc to be supressed but still count that when trying to proc the following cards? hard to say.

    But I do think you are right on the proc supression percentages, 10% seems in line with the skill level increasing proc chance.

    1. There's a reason I list skill percentages the way I do.

      The top card goes 100% of the time. Then the game tries the second card on a coin flip, 50%. Then it tries the third card on its coin flip, fourth card on its coin flip, etc. So when you think about it, the chances of two cards skills going off, is much higher than 50% since it can be any card from 2-5. So to me it never made much sense to look at it like "hey the chances of getting two cards to proc is 50%"

      Realistically what should be listed is something like:

      Card 1: 100%, Cards 2 or 3: 75%, Cards 4 or 5: 25%.

      At least that's how I took my intial look at it and that's why I write it the way I do. It helps me visualize the way it distributes. I should probably write it the right way though.

  2. As a HR Man deck user, I don't know what to do anymore lol. Especially the def line up... Not a single card offers buff man def/attk, buff all def, or hit all attk. Except holy lancer... which is non existence now.

    I don't know why Mobage didn't give Master Bard buff def man/god like other realm's equivalent cards have... :(

    1. I have the same problem! I have 3 Paladins, 1 Long, and 1 Captain as far as def goes. Can't seem to find any good cards though, I've been thinking of just saving for a Lance and keeping my fingers crossed that there aren't any more HW before I grab once :(

      Well, technically Great Spirit buffs man atk/def but its stats make it a joke.

      As far as I know, adding Holy Dragoon and Master Archer to my atk deck pretty much means I'll probably only need to swap out one card after the procs change since I'm running 4 claymaids+wing right now.

  3. I think this sucks to be honest. If you look at gods hr, they now have trow elf, ifrit and sword valk to boost their attack and apsara xuanwu cybele shield angel for defense. Gods at hr level which is where most average players are at is now pretty strong. Man def now is rubbish, so is demons and their attacks not that much better. This means unless you are higher rankers that deal in srs and ssrs, everybody else is screwed. At the moment I can't afford to build a lancelot, for my man def, heck I can barely afford one clay maid. High rankers can go quilin, quilin sleipnir, sleipnir and apsara, stuff like that. I reckon this will destroy the game further.

    And knowing mobage, I think the 10% debuff to skill proc is a bit optimistic.

    1. demon realm at least got marsyas from the new cards released, 16.9k in def + at least 8% boost from skill gives them a viable 3rd card for the 1-2-3 spots in def. if you're okay with throwing in a non-realm card you can throw in pan for 17.5k in atk + at least 8% boost from skill.

      man realm? we got master bard. 13% hit to demon atk. we've already got master astrologist for 17.4 in def + 13% hit to demon atk. a base master bard only has 10 more in def.

      seriously, at times i think mobage just hates man realm.

    2. IMO, In the short run, many play will be disapointed because of this change. But in the long run, It adds more depth into the game. Before, when we look at a desk, we only look at the top tier card (Apsara, Claymore, Lancelot, Nightmare etc.)It will no longer be the case that we can stack 5 cards. Now, we have to look at the general strength of the desk and other cards. As you said, GoD desk rightnow is pretty good with more variety. However, as they add more card, it will be balance out. I think that is why they add god/demon or god/man etc. skill to the pool.
      Also before, doesnt' 5 lancelot or 5 apsara unstopable at HR level Lol.

    3. Seriously, Man Desk use to be the Best in HR with 5 CM, best in SR with 5 lancelot, no man real complain. Now, it is still good with CM, Archer, Master Bard. What do you guys complain about ??? You want man desk to be the best all time ???

    4. idk much about SR and above, but when it comes to HR cards, it looks like God realm is ahead right now for atk and def, they've got plenty of cards to substitute. Demon's got 3 that boost all def/demon def and at least 4 good cards for atk.

      Man's well off when it comes to atk (clay, master archer, holy dragoon) but we're SOL when it comes to def. we've got one card that boosts man def (pally) and one card that boost all def (holy lancer, rare as fuck and OP). other than that, all we have is wings. Pally's got pretty bad stats but a good boost, holy lancer has a decent skill and so-so stats.

      just looking at the hr cards out right now, i'd say we're not exactly the best realm, not if you're looking for good atk and def.

    5. Well, I like the good discussion we're having on it. The real concern will come when we find out the exact percentages. Remember, the chance to proc is increased now based on skill level as well as power of proc. This equalizes the debuff for 2 card proc situations. If you have one different card in your top 3, you actually experience an improvement in deck power. I understand the concern for man realm players, but they still have the best offensive HR in game. Demons don't, gods don't.

    6. Well, I said you guys used to be the best attack realm in HR and the best def real in SR. I never said that man realm will be the best after this change.
      I do agree that God realm would benefit the most after this change as they have many viable cards.
      Man realm and Demon are pretty much equal Imo. Man Realm is better in attack, and Demon is better in Def. And 1 more think, man realm cards are much much cheaper than Demon.

      That is only for HR card, I have no idea how this would affect players with SR and SSR card.
      I do believe that They will release new card pack in the near future to fix this problem. More money for them Lol.
      But overall, it should be a good change unless they mess up big time.

    7. One thing I like about this change is that it will make popular card less popular and other cards become more viable. No one will aim for 5 Apsara or 5 CM, instead they will be looking for other cards also. IMO, this change will make popular cards drop in price, thus more viable for players and make less popular cards more valueable, thus sell for more. That is my assumption on the market.

    8. I don't think popular cards will drop in price unless the % debuff is higher than 10%. For example, one of the better defense decks will be 1 Sleipner and 4 Apsara still.

      I see great cards in HR still holding their value, and SR increasing slightly in price because people will see a reason to move up to them.

    9. I'm not going into which realm is better etc etc, but just pointing out the viabilty of gods cards possible to replace your deck compared to man/demon.

      My main problem is how high rankers with legend decks have a huge array of options but a player with 3 paladins or wraiths for a defense and can't afford/upgrading attack deck, is now screwed because there is no replacement card. If I swapped two massive boost to gods defense to great boost to gods def or massive hit to foes attk/boost to def all I wouldn't mind too much. But moving from a nightmare to a succubus or minotaur? That sucks.

      And sure for example man defense has master bard and master astrologist but the point of a def is to boost your own def because that is the best possible way to defend every attack. Specific hit to certain realms attk or def will just make me a ff hr player even worse compared to those high rankers.

      I can see the positives of this, many cards go unnoticed in rage with every player running a 5 clay, 5 apsara, 5 enkidu deck etc, and it will be nice to have some variety. Maybe Im just sour because I just built a second paladin before the announcement.

  4. I don't see why people are complaining about denon... For atk Nightmare Nightmare deminic knight trow trow is still viable. Same for wraith Wraith marsyas chim chim. That is as long as your wraiths and nightmares ate skill 10 anyway.

    1. This does improve the value and importance of cards skilled to 10.I think that will be a major area to make money.

  5. the only complain that i have with this skill revamp is the time frame, 10 days to prepare? really? it took me months to build my deck and they give us 10 days :|

    anyway, just in case:
    what if they do nerf the proc %'s to 20-30% per same name card proc'ing?

    whats a good replacement to my
    3 cm sk10
    2 achi sk5

    1 cm sk10
    1 holy dragoon sk10
    1 master archer sk10
    1 achi sk5
    1 griffon sk5
    1 cm sk10
    1 achi sk?
    1 griffon sk?
    1 master alch sk?
    1 6-10 yuki sk?
    how about tristan or mimi?

    and my def:
    1 lance sk8
    2 lance sk4
    2 long sk4

    1 lance sk8
    1 pal sk10
    1 long sk4
    1 6-10 capt
    1 6-10 witchcrafter
    i probably can save for 1 mimi and jeane, may take months lol

    1. If the %s are 20-30% I will compute most decks assuming 2 Procs total. This means you will have a lead card that is individualized, and cards like claymore will take spots 2 and three with the normal wings. The major difference will be just swapping out leader cards.

    2. so...a different leader card? 2 cm 2 wings? can the wings be the same? so i just replace the 1st cm with, lets say a mimi?

      same with my def?
      different leader card(mimi), 2 lances,2 longs?

    3. Yeah. That would still be solid assuming skill 10. Everybody is forgetting that the chance to proc is now improved with skill level as well as power of the proc.

      Don't get me wrong, it depends partially on exact percentages but in 90% of cases I can think of, it makes the most sense to use a unique leader, two of the same in 2nd/3rd spot, and normal wings.

    4. Thats a good point. So you reckon the basis of a hr deck now has to have a sr as a leader i.e lance paladin paladin wing wing? And hekate nightmare night mare neko neko?

    5. @lucarda
      what do you mean power of the proc?

      and yes, i do agree with your logic that changing the lead card would be best even with identical 2/3 and 4/5. at least the proc doesnt reach a 3rd one.

      out of topic:
      how do you price a card with skill? for ssr/legend.
      ex mimi skill 8, achilles skill 10

    6. @Carnagemags. By power of the proc I mean Claymore maid for example has a 13% boost at lvl 1, 23% boost at level 10. So now instead of solely increasing the procs potency, it increases the % chance of it going off.

      Hekate, NM, Dragonewt, Trow Trow or Neko Neko.

    7. Look at comparable prices. They always fluctuate. Achilles skill 10 should be pretty pricy though.

  6. Don't forget now only 3 skills can activate... lmao

    1. It's always been 3 skills can activate. Anybody who has said otherwise was mistaken and normally took the morale boost as another skill proc.

  7. Hi again, just wanted to ask if 2 different cards have the same skill eg Trow elf and ifrit (big boost to gods attack)
    does this mean the 2nd card has less chance to proc or does the new rule only apply if the cards are identical ?

    1. No. It only applies to cards with identical skills. You'll notice each skill has a name to it, the names can't be identical, the proc can.

    2. I guess I am still confused about your reply Lucarda, so you are saying "No" that it WONT lessen the chance of the 2nd one going off?

      I am currently running 3 Infrits, bought a Pan to replace one but I need to know if I should put a Trow Elf in the #1 slot.

    3. I'll try to be clear.

      Ifrits skill is not big boost to gods attack. Ifrits skill is Flame Storm. Trow Elfs skill is Mana Sphere.

      Flame Storm reduces chance of another Flame Storm, not the chances of a Mana Sphere.

      So, Pan, Ifrit, Trow will have no effect on each other. The easy way to think about it is only identical cards are effected, not identical buffs.

    4. Awesome, I have been looking all over the net trying to find out what the deal was with that. I understand that none of us are going to know 100% how it works until the 26th but that sheds some light on it for sure, thanks!

  8. Well it looks like there is a fire sale on Apsaras at the moment, I was building them to make HP. 5 carded I was selling them for 270 HP, now you can get the same card for 140HP (which is NUTS because they cost 30HP EACH a few days ago).

    I didnt lose out too bad because I am GOD realm and only have 2 of them...sounds like that is how many I should have with the new skill change, just stinks because I could use the HP!!

    1. Foolishness. Buy them! People will realize how silly they are buy them

  9. I will post back here Lucarda (or wherever the newest discussion is) after I run numbers. I had over 1,000 data on procs from before and found the 50% 2nd proc and 25% proc trends. I'm with you, I feel that as long as the skill of your card is at a 10, there probably won't be any change to what you are seeing... However, don't be surprised if the same skill cards aren't drastically reduced. Mobage focuses on stopping "cheater" even though they are terrible at it and they see all the top players with decks that are all of the same card... They're dumb I know. It would be like trying to limit bluestacks by creating a Bazaar... Theses guys are clueless. I'll report back after another 1000 data points!!!

    1. Haha. Thanks. I figure since it is truly a waterfall system, the 50% chance probably drops to 40%, and the skill up increases it again back up to 50.

      Overall these changes are buffing decks and giving players (like man realm players) a reason to buy SR cards.

    2. I always had a reason to buy SR cards... just not the HP :)

  10. I hate probability. When you calculate something like "at least 1 card out of 4" it's simple (4 because the 5th is always 100%). But at least 2 and on, I'm too lazy to do permutations and nobody would blame you for not wanting to do them either.

  11. Hi Lucarda or anyone else for the matter.

    My current deck is a 6-10 Nightmare sk10, 2x Sutekh sk8 and 2x 6-10 DPNewts at sk10. Even before this skill change update I already had intentions of selling off my Nightmare and newts to fund new cards, however with the latest news and the bazzar madness I'm unsure.

    If lets say I manage to sell may cards leaving me with 2 sutekh and 1700hp, what upgrade path should I take or should I just keep my current deck?

  12. Eh, sorry if this sounds a bit noob in comparison to the other comments. I'm pretty new to the game, and was going off your suggestions in your posts for best R/HR decks (

    Before reading this, I was going to go for (as you suggested):

    Rare card Demon Attack Deck:

    Leader: Succubus - 11.7k attack - Med Boost to Demons Attack
    Second: Succubus - 11.7k attack - Med Boost to Demons Attack
    Third: Succubus - 11.7k attack - Med Boost to Demons Attack
    Fourth: Elder Dragon - 12.6k attack - Med Hit to Foes Gods Defense
    Fifth: Elder Dragon - 12.6k attack - Med Hit to Foes Gods Defense

    Leader: Jack-o-Lantern - 12.5k Defense - Med Boost to Defense (all)
    Second: Jack-o-Lantern - 12.5k Defense - Med Boost to Defense (all)
    Third: Jack-o-Lantern - 12.5k Defense - Med Boost to Defense (all)
    Fourth: Manticore - 12.7k Defense - Med Hit to Foes Demons Attack
    Fifth: Manticore - 12.7k Defensse - Med Hit to Foes Demons Attack

    I'm assuming there are better options for a noob like me considering these changes, or are these attack/def decks still optimal?